Game Discussion

[Jeff]

Oh yes, I'm very much looking forward to containment failure in the diaper department.

Brian: Nope, no book yet. The final version of the game is coming in August, I assume. And man, they're still working on it. I sure hope it won't be sloppy, but time is short. Sheesh. Typical WotC. Anyway, I could get you at least a basic "how to play" PDF, though. The rest it's easier if I input into your character sheet. What I think is easiest for Condign is just a fighter with a build towards protective or tactical stuff, rather than big weapons and maxed damage output. That should create something like a warlord. Maybe I can multiclass fighter with bard a little bit, not in the musical sense, but to get the morale-based stuff. We'll see.

[Jeff]

Mike, so yeah, my idea for an avenger in 5E is to make a paladin/monk multiclass combo (paladin because it's a divine warrior and monk because it's a graceful, unarmored type) as a basis, then adjust things and convert some of the 4E avenger's signature moves. Not easable, but doable. We're not beholden to WotC's rules. This is our game. How about I take a stab at that and then see what you think?

[Ken]

I'll just add that I'm finally looking at the new "alpha" version of the Players Handbook and am frankly stunned at how inclusive it is of previous classes and races. It seems to be a nice improvement on the last version of D&D Next that I truly studied, more than a year ago.

The paladin even has an Oath of Vengeance path for those known as "avengers or dark knights" with all the Batman-esque "You're not escaping me!" hunter stuff you'd expect. I'm quite surprised, but pleasantly so.

Darren: At first glance, I think you'll like the Draconic Bloodline for sorcerers, too.

Wait, I'm supposed to be working, aren't I?

[Jeff]

Feb 27, 2014 17:22:48 GMT -4 Ken said:

The paladin even has an Oath of Vengeance path for those known as "avengers or dark knights" with all the Batman-esque "You're not escaping me!" hunter stuff you'd expect.

Quite right. The Oath of Vengeance paladin could form the base, then we could swap out some other Lay On Hands typical paladin stuff for some more avengery stuff.

[Dave W.]

Is there a later set of playtest pdfs that the 091913 download? I'm willing to take a stab at Adamant with those if that's helpful...

[Ken]

Nothing publicly available just yet, Dave. Jeff and I have access to the "alpha" version of the new PHB that went out to playtesters about 2 weeks ago, but we can't put that out on a publicly viewable forum like this one.

[Dave W.]

Ah, I see. so I'll be patient then... FWIW, I'm fine with going private on the forums...

[Darren]

I really mostly like the story stuff, too. The fights are good, but I often liked the fights for their story elements. I don't like to get bogged down in rules (or, as Jeff would say, I like to just ignore them).

[Jeff]

Now if I can just find a setting that lets this forum only be accessible to us. Hmm.

Darren:

[Ken]

Jeff, here's one way: If you make us all "staff members," you can activate Maintenance Mode in the Forum Settings tab, which would make the forum viewable only by staff members.

[Jeff]

Maybe. But I'm not confident that wouldn't give you all the ability to see my hidden DM subforums. Which are a mess, but still, I'd rather keep those out of sight at all times.

[Ken]

Go to Admin > Members > Member Groups. It looks like you can create a new group (say, "Minions"!), click on the Yes button for "Staff Member?" and simply not give them any special access. Your private boards are likely already set to be "admin only," so other staff members can't access it, but you should double check it.

[Jeff]

Okay, guys. I created this Excel-like Google doc. I'm still tweaking it now, but the basic design is there. Some specific notes:

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtwGqtveCtxmdE1jeVpUdDVEdUZGV294THNWTlF6WlE&usp=sharing

Bookmark this. I may eventually remove the link from this board altogether, to ensure that it's never public, given all the information it will have in it.

- This will house character sheets for everyone, so it's all on one link. Each character is a different tab.

- Right now only Adamant is complete, or nearly so.

- I started and mostly finished Syrdan, whose avenger class has been realized as a paladin, but things like armor proficiency has been swapped out for more avengery things. He doesn't have Lay on Hands, for example, but he does have the ability to turn one weapon at a time into one that utilizes his high Wisdom (like the avenger). Stuff like that. I can't list it all out here. When I get to his spells, I'll revise it a bit to be more offensive than a paladin's. Also, Mike, as an elf (I made Syrdan a sort of wood elf/high elf combo, since Eberron's a little different on that front

- I'm not done with all this yet, by far. So please be patient.

- Ability scores are all being lowered slightly. Essentially, I'm taking 1 point from two scores, or 2 points from one score, in order to give you a feat to approximate some of the things from your 4E choices. In 5E, you only get feats if you choose not to raise ability scores, and in our game, we've already passed that instance once now.

Don't be too concerned with adjusted numbers. Things are generally scaled down in D&D next. Magic weapons are almost always just +1 with rare exception. Hit points and damage output is aligned with the latest playtest rules. That said, I've made a lot of allowances and carried over some things from your 4E sheets that don't even exist in 5E yet.

What do you think?

[Dave W.]

Well, that looks like a lot of work!

I've bookmarked as suggested.

There's a lot take in. I will start consuming in small bites...

I'm going to miss taking damage for you guys but maybe by applying disadvantage no one will have to take damage...

And hey, I get spells...

[Ken]

I'm working on Belarin, too. I miss certain things, like Shadow Walk, but I do have a variety of things to choose. I want to keep him "strikery," so I'm choosing offensive over defensive in many spots. Aside from items, he's 90% done.

[Jeff]

Yeah, it's a bit of work.

Don't be intimidated. This is all simpler than 4E was. You just need to take in the formatting here.

Also, Adamant had spells before. 4E just called them all powers and gave them to fighters, too. Divine Bodyguard, Radiant Delirium, Hallowed Circle, those were all spells. And Divine Challenge, the signature paladin ability in 4E? That's the spell Demand now. A lot is still around, just placed back in a more classic format.

I can eventually talk you through some of this. I've really only just begun. So take it slow.

I've now got most of Condign finished, too. There are options for the fighter that bring in some of the warlord's abilities. See the maneuvers listed for him. And as far as feats go, Condign has the Magical Initiate feat, which is sort of like the multiclass feat he had for the fiendish-pact warlock. I gave him the Inspiring Leader feat, which lets him essentially give a hit-point-boosting pep talk. And one of his fighter maneuvers is called Rally, which is basically the new version of inspiring word.

[Dave W.]

I see the point re: Adamant had spells in 4e. Just that these spells are some of the classics... Bless, command, aid... Some of my favorite divine spells.

I have a couple of questions, nothing profound but I can wait until you're ready.

[Jeff]

Okay. I'll create a new thread specifically for fielding 5E rules discussion.

Also, once I have the character sheets in working order, I'll resume gameplay. And I have a way we can jump back and hit the ground running with the new rules where we left off, to mix a couple of metaphors.

[Darren]

I have no idea what you are all talking about.

[Jeff]

I hope you're referring to mechanics, Darren? If so, hang in there. It'll get easy.

[Brian]

I'm in the same boat, Darren. But I trust we'll pick up on the new game play mechanics without too much difficutly.

[Jeff]

Dave (Bean): As a rogue, Shorak has something called Expertise, which means he gets to look at his skill or tool proficiencies (that is, things he's already good at) and choose four of them to be especially good at. Which four would you like to go with?

Tools: Thieves' tools

Skills: Acrobatics, Deception, Nature, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival

[Dave B.]

Mar 4, 2014 13:51:58 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Dave (Bean): As a rogue, Shorak has something called Expertise, which means he gets to look at his skill or tool proficiencies (that is, things he's already good at) and choose four of them to be especially good at. Which four would you like to go with?

Tools: Thieves' tools

Skills: Acrobatics, Deception, Nature, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival

Definitely Thieves' tools. Based on the way I've been playing him so far, I would have to go with Acrobatics and Stealth. As for the last one, I'm torn between Perception or Sleight of Hand. I'll take any advice on one of those two. Although, Survival or Nature seem useful as well. I just can't decide. Everyone feel free to chime in on Shorak's last Expertise choice. It will certainly be a great help in making the final decision.

[Ken]

Based on how you've played him, Dave, I'd say Survival. Shorak just knows how to hang in there and find ways to survive and get around obstacles in the outdoors.

Also, I'll say that in terms of mechanics, this is fairly close to D&D 3.5, which is the system that the campaign used at its beginning, with a bit of 4E in its flavor and in terms of how skills are handled, i.e., you get a flat bonus to your roll as opposed to buying a bunch of ranks in different skills (as in D&D 3.5). So yes, I think you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

[Jeff]

Yeah, Survival's a good one for Shorak. Remember, his pre-PC days were about being a guide and fix-it man in Stormreach. It's a tough town. Plus there's the whole drow tribe in the jungle thing. Survival is good, and will certainly come up in days to come.

Thieves' tools, Acrobatics,Stealth, Survival, then?

[Dave W.]

Jeff got there before me... If he's selling his services as a jungle guide, Survival would seem the natural choice...

[Dave B.]

Mar 5, 2014 7:37:29 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Yeah, Survival's a good one for Shorak. Remember, his pre-PC days were about being a guide and fix-it man in Stormreach. It's a tough town. Plus there's the whole drow tribe in the jungle thing. Survival is good, and will certainly come up in days to come.

Thieves' tools, Acrobatics,Stealth, Survival, then?

Yeah, that sounds right to me. I think it's just the greedy rogue coming out, wanting it all.

Let's do it!

[Jeff]

Done, Dave.

General update: I'm almost done with Streko's sheet, then it's just Kal. Saving the best (and most likely to complain) last.

Mike, can I get your thoughts?

Soon, gents. It would behoove you to do a little rereading of what's going on in the story.

[Brian]

Okay, Jeff. I'm taking time to go over Big Red's new character sheet. Since the Warlord class no longer exists, I'm assuming the reason I can't find his old powers is because they no longer exist. (See how I have such a firm grasp of the obvious!) What I need to wrap my head around are the new Class Abilities and Battle Master Abilities. Here's where you may get more techinical questions, though I may wait and do them on the fly as they occur during game play.

Looking forward to starting again, gents. Should be loads of fun.

[Mike]

I don't have anything meaningful to add, Jeff. I still don't have any sort of "feel" for Next, so to try and convert 4E principles to a rules system I haven't fully wrapped my brain around is something I can't really do right now.