Chapter 2: Q&A / Discussion

[Jeff]

but ultimately I'm here to play your game

I don't buy this part, though. It's not my game. That makes it sound like you're doing me a favor. It's our game that I'm taking up the responsibility of running. So yes, I'm running it and a lot of stuff falls to me, but while I can depict the world, I'd rather you guys depict your characters. You look to me to know what the world around your character looks, smells, and sounds like. I look to you know what your character looks, smells, and sounds like in it.

Some definitive answers.

I can definitely appreciate this request. As a fan of Lost, if there are a thirty strings remaining open, tie some up before presenting more. I get that, and I will keep this in mind.

But one thing I ask you to all consider is that the answers need to make sense that they're there. Chapter 2 so far has encompassed less than 24 hours in-game. I don't intend to wrap all things up neatly with each chapter closure. But already you have some answers to things from chapter 1.

and there seems to be only one real direction to go

This one I will dispute. But I'll say first that almost every "direction" has come directly from me when the PCs needed an investigative thread to follow because so far most aren't seeking their own. There've been a lot of scenes of arguing and not a lot of decisive moments.

The whole game has been less linear than you think. Once more has happened, I'll give you some trivia to go with what's happened already and where I originally thought they'd go.

[Josh]

I don't buy this part, though. It's not my game. That makes it sound like you're doing me a favor.

I suppose we have varying definitions of "your game", as I wasn't inferring that favors were being dealt. What I mean is, I want to play the game that Jeff LaSala is setting up. As the DM, you obviously feed the story off of what we give you, but you also have a notion of how much we are meant to feed in, etc. Just as you are asking us whether we're having fun, etc., that same rule applies to you. If you were setting up all this deep story stuff and ALL of us just wanted to skim over the top and punch skeletons and shit, then we wouldn't be playing "your game".

Simply put, I am playing because I enjoy the ideas, level of detail, and guidelines that you have set up for the game, which allows me to put in a lot of characterization and decision making as well.

[Joe]

What the shifter said.... ;D

[Darren]

I agree with everything that's been said so far. In particular, I agree with Joe's last point. I think there are times when we just don't know where to go and what to do, and it feels like no matter how hard we try, we're not getting anywhere. I have to say, my heart sort of sank when in this most recent bit the dragonhawk started to get away because I thought, "Finally, we're getting somewhere," and then I thought, "Seriously? He's going to escape? We still don't know what the heck's going on?" So yeah, I think that sometimes the pace ends up all over the place because we just don't really know what to do. It's good to give us freedom to do what we want, but some guidance is, of course, always necessary to make sure that the story actually has a plot.

[Darren]

Oh, also....I think, and maybe I'm jumping the gun in saying this, but I THINK we're finally starting to work together as a group a little more. I think this chapter has finally brought some of that. Maybe it's the ever decreasing size of the group that's helping that, but I feel like those of us who stuck with it are developing a certain understanding of each other and the way we play.

Or maybe people are just starting to agree with Kal more. ;D

[Jeremy]

Yup, can't add much to what's already been said, since I agree with most of it. I think the campaign is definitely NOT lacking in richness or scope, and your enthusiam in running it makes it fun.

I usually have made a point to say something, even if I'm not sure:

Goran looks grimly pleased with his handiwork, then hearing Streko's confused plea, turns to the rest."What do you want me to do? How can I help? I'm not too sure what else is happening, so much attention have I been paying to my target."

...or...

Goran has already chimed in: he's ready to shoot anything that causes trouble...


But I'm the kind of person where if I don't have something definitive to add, I usually don't try to speak. Plus, and I think this issue is crucial: The timing is always an issue. It's not just my weird schedule either. Sometimes I can't really check in every day and read all the new posts and imagine the action and try to come up with a useful response, sometimes it takes a full day before I can do that and by then, often, the action has already happened.

So it's not really an issue of not wanting to add to the play, but that sometimes I get busy, as we all do, and it passes me by!

I would like to know a bit more about what's going on, I feel just as uninformed about what we're up against as I did at the beginning, and maybe that's just because as characters we have been making poor choices or missing enormous clues staring us in the face. I'm certainly no expert on Eberron, so if the clues are only recognizable to those who really know Eberron, then I'm definitely going to miss them.

But hey, I'm still digging it, for the record.

[Jeff]

But I'm the kind of person where if I don't have something definitive to add, I usually don't try to speak.

Right, and you're not the only one, Jeremy. But, if you mean "post" by "speak," then if this is your tendency I'm specifically asking you guys to not be that way. Posting nothing tells me nothing, so I can't tell if you're indecisive, simply waiting for someone else to keep things moving, or if you, the player, are lying in a ditch somewhere in need of help.

The examples you give:

Goran looks grimly pleased with his handiwork, then hearing Streko's confused plea, turns to the rest."What do you want me to do? How can I help? I'm not too sure what else is happening, so much attention have I been paying to my target."

Goran has already chimed in: he's ready to shoot anything that causes trouble...

Are exactly the right thing to do, if you really don't know what to do.

Some definitive answers. There seems to be a whole lot of mystery and a whole lot of questions...but there just doesn't seem to be any answers brewing...just more questions.

Coming back to this for a moment. We started gameplay last April, which is 9 months ago. That seems like a long time, and I can see why you want more answers, but the actual amount of time that's passed in-game is almost 3 days.

For me, I believe a chapter should end with some questions being answered definitively...

I think we're defining a chapter differently. If you want a chapter to end with some very solid answers, with things wrapped up like a prime time TV show, then perhaps I should make chapters longer? Make them span a specific amount of time in game? How many novels have you read where each chapter brings solid answers? Usually those come in the last sixth of the book.

For me, I've been thinking of chapters as a linked series of events or as a specific phase of the story. That's all.
That said, few answers are going to just come. Most you have to find. And that requires action and investigation, the kind of stuff Josh is referring to when he said:

I've stated before that I really prefer the deeper conversational stuff and talking through things, conversations with NPCs, and mystery solving...

But so far, the ratio of definitive action vs. arguing or waiting around for someone else to act hasn't been conducive to getting answers. Again, it's been 3 days so far. And you've all already leveled up once in that time (and will do so again soon). I'd like a faster pace for this game so that time passes more quickly, but I can't do that alone.

I think there are times when we just don't know where to go and what to do, and it feels like no matter how hard we try, we're not getting anywhere.

You may observe that already, some things are working out. I'm firmly keeping in mind to try to complicate things less and I already have some things in place that will help bring more answers (and yes, maybe some new mysteries). Soon. You'll see.

because I thought, "Finally, we're getting somewhere," and then I thought, "Seriously? He's going to escape? We still don't know what the heck's going on?"

There's also realism to consider. A dragonhawk is a serious enemy, which can kill quite quick. Add some enemy spellcasters who seem to be a bit higher level than the PCs, and things aren't going that bad after all. A dragonhawk is more powerful than any of you at this point, and they're strong and fast, and this one's unusual on top of that. That said, if it weren't for Pel's willingness to attempt a ruse to get more information, you wouldn't even be where you are right now. Had everyone opted instead to just go back to Phorem's tower, you'd be somewhere else right now and there'd be a new development going on; and someone would complain, "There seems to be only one real direction to go."

I'd say you actually set upon a path that is bringing more answers than they would otherwise.

But anyway, all THAT said, I'll keep these things in mind and I'll try to tone down the level of complexity going on. Meanwhile, I did recreate that recap thread. That should help relieve some of the "I have no idea what's going on," but I have the sense you guys aren't really reading it.

[Jeff]

Oh, and to Darren's point:

I think, and maybe I'm jumping the gun in saying this, but I THINK we're finally starting to work together as a group a little more.

I think that's true. Many of the problems we're still seeing may be remnants of the initial wave of distrust that filled the group. But maybe that's starting to go away?

[Darren]

I agree with what you're saying, Jeff. I think the game needed an initial breaking in period, if you will, which would be normal for any D&D game. And normally it would happen a lot faster, but then the players would be in the same room and a play session would span a lot more in-game time (most likely). I think it's just taken a while for a clearer picture to form here because of the pace that the game is forced to take by nature of how we are playing. I think it's starting to come together naturally, so I think that while discussion of these points is good for going forward, a lot of this may already be working itself out.

[Joe]

What the warmage said....



THREE DAYS??? THAT'S IT???

Khyber's breath! Time sure drags when you're having fun!

[Darren]

Warmage? Nope. He was the first to leave...

[Josh]

Technically, he was the second... Cutter left first... though "not of his own will"

[Darren]

Right. I actually kinda forgot he was ever in the group.

[Joe]

I miss everyone who left...

Whoops...sorry Darren...got my classes confused...