Chapter 2: Q&A / Discussion

[Darren]

Oh, suffer them. They're not really that annoying. They're really just kind of funny. Google Ads cracks me up with the way it finds these words and then choosing ads that it thinks are appropriate based on your site content. Some of what it comes up with is great!

[Jeff]

I'm toying with the idea of keeping a basic log of events for Dark Echelon. I'm not sure why, I don't have all that much time. But before I explore the idea I want to know what you think.

Is it worth it? Would you actually reference it? It wouldn't be fully comprehensive, but it could potentially help catch you up on the overall plot.

That said, anyone want to help me with this?

[Darren]

I think it's a great idea. Not sure if I could/how I could help, but I do think it would be helpful.

[Jeff]

I see one raised hand on that idea. Well, that brings me to today's topic:

What's the deal? Seriously, I need to get inside the heads of my players, because I'm really sensing a laconic and lethargic style of gameplay. It feels like everyone wants to be led along, rather than striking their own path. By simply posting a few reactive words, if any, then waiting until I post again and move things along. But this is supposed to be the ultimate Choose Your Own Adventure book, guys!

There's been a lot of inaction in everyone's posts, and it can't be for lack of action in-game. When everyone came out of the sewer and met Grafth, no one said anything like, "Hey, some sort of monster was down there. We narrowly escaped." So now Grafth has no idea. Even a general, "So-and-so tells Grafth about his experiences in the sewers."

That's just one isolated example, but c'mon....I need some more input, more interaction between players. Is this really so hard?

No one would have noticed Dhaz's absence if it hadn't been for an NPC, you know? I have this feeling that if I described Phorem as lying on the ground, beaten unconscious, someone's post would have been something like, "So-and-so stands ready to move on. Let's go."

The general attitude seems to be one of just waiting for me to take over. Even when no consensus is reached among the group, do you expect me to know where everyone's going next?

I'm not pissed, just a bit frustrated and I need your input. And no, Jeremy, this isn't about arguing or not following each other's plans. So don't flip out. I'm just trying to gauge the overall opinion of my players and the reasons for this inexplicable ennui.

[Josh]

I long for more PC dialogue and sleuthing.

[Darren]

For me, to some extent, it's just a matter of not wanting to write out/re-tread what has already been written. So, I guess that was a disconnect between me as a player and Kal as a character. I knew that Josh read about the creature in the sewers, so Kal didn't say anything about it. As for Dhaz, well, it occured to neither me nor Kal that he wasn't there, so there was that. I'm just not sure that every point that happens needs to be discussed ad naseum, so I think that perhaps some of us are just waiting for the next thing to take action on. I could be wrong, though.

[Josh]

Darren,

Just so you know, while I'm reading the things that Grafth is not involved in, I'm 100% playing Grafth as unaware of those things.

Personally, I like when characters speak more than when they just "move" through the events. I'd rather here Kal talk in his own words about what happened then to just say "Kal tells Grafth what happened" and then everything's up to speed.

I know that in some cases, it makes more sense to do that (and I did that on Jeff's behest just recently), but I think it enriches the story when the characters actually talk to each other about what went on, rather than players just reading it.

I think we can't wait for "the next thing to take action on". That seems like a really boring way to play. It makes more sense for them to actually talk about things, ask questions even if we all know the answers, and see what comes out of that.

[Darren]

I guess I don't entirely disagree with you, Josh. My only problem is the amount of real time that often passes during the course of these events, and my terrible memory when it comes to remembering what has happened. If we had some sort of resource like Jeff was suggesting, then I could probably more easily go back to that, see what happened, and then write about it in Kal's own words. But the truth is, I've already forgotten half of it by now. I don't remember a lot of the details of Kal's discussions with Marshal Velhan and the first Emerald Claw soldier because those posts happened well over a month ago. And I know I could go back through and read the old posts, but I often just don't have the time for that. So that might also account for some of the lazy posting lately.

[Josh]

I agree that a sort of link-log would be good, but logistically it seems like a heavy burden.

In the meantime, here's what I've been doing. If something specifically important happens, or if Grafth needs to recall places/people/things said, I do one of two things:

1. I have a .txt file where I put some notes.
2. I bookmark specific pages in my browser. If I need to remember what name of the farmer from the beginning is, I just use my "Post-Train Farmhouse" bookmark and jump directly to that arc in the story.

So, I guess I'm doing for myself what Jeff is proposing be done en masse. But I think keeping some of that personal is good, keeps what is important to YOU different than what is important to ME, so that it doesn't become a homogeneous mass of characters who all know the same thing and consider the same stuff important.

[Darren]

That's a good idea, although I often find myself checking in from my phone, which means that when I get home I'd then have to start going back and cataloging. It's not impossible...I'm just lazy.

[Jeff]

Please, keep talking. I'd really like to get Joe's, Lara's, and Jeremy's input here, too.

Obviously, I don't want to make it so that everyone has to bookmark all pages. I could probably even create a thread that archives key information (like the names of various NPCs you've encountered and some basic info on them), but I'd really only put in the effort to something like that if it's something you'll actually refer to, to make your own posts well-informed.

But one of the common problems is basic direction. You've all long since established that you want no party leader. And you've generally all said that you don't want Kal to be the leader. But I need to know when the group has decided upon a particular course of action. Most of the time that attitude is, "Let's go." Even when no destination has been stated.

Each person tends to go his own way, which works find from moment to moment but slows things down in the longterm.

[Lara]

So basically you want to create a campaign wiki without making it another website. I honestly don't know how much I'd use such a resource.

For general purposes, I could see setting up another thread that's like a summary for each chapter, just including names and major events in it. Keep it to one post or one post per type of information. Then everyone's still responsible for his or her own info that specifically interests him or her.

But I still don't know how often I'd use that.

[Jeff]

Lara: good to know. I'll probably nix the idea.

But then I need to know that everyone is going to keep the basics in mind. If something's been said to you, your character should remember it. Period. You, the players, have the advantage of being able to look back and read precise words from previous posts; that should account for your character's memories of recent events.

So I need to trust that you can all handle this.

Right?

[Joe]

TWO POINTS:

1) Streko is dealing with issues having to do with what occurred to him in the brewery and the sewer. I am playing up one of his personality aspects that we discussed when he was first created way back when...that is what he is finally going to talk to Grafth about, should Grafth entertain the idea of listening to the halfling vent for a short while. So, information will be given to him eventually, but I wanted to make sure there was a REASON for that information to be given...and not just "Oh, Grafth is here, let's tell him what just happened! Right now! Here! With that monster right beneath us!!" Streko wanted to be gone...and gone he went.

2) I think a minor compendium (or say appendix) listing major characters, places and such might be very useful, but I agree with Laura and Josh that we should be responsible for making sure our characters say the right things. Of course, it could be in character for some to not care or know exact details....but I doubt a single one of us wouldn't take the time to research an important event or person that was previously experienced.

And C) I, for one, have fought to keep the group together as many times as possible...and it IS frustrating to some extent when people go off and do their own thing. I have no problems sending Streko off to find his sister and such...as he really has little to do (apparently) with what occurred to the others on the train...and doesn't, by his nature, go for the John Wayne approach to problem solving that others do...and rightfully so. Right now, Streko is annoyed with both Kal and Goran...Kal for going off on another apparent tangent and Goran for publicly denouncing what he perceived as a continuing, ongoing and obviously unresolved non-existant group dynamic. He joined the group to find his sister and offered to help them in their endeavors in exchange for their assistance and he is seeing very little of the latter and way too much of the former, without seemingly getting any closer to his own (or, for that matter, the group's) goal.

So, to sum up: Information that Streko knows is being relayed; like a limited appendix for major characters and events, but support individual responsibility for exact information (which may or may not be needed by everyone) and; frustrated by not wanting to make own decisions and go off, creating more work for DM and sucking it up and reacting to whatever the gung-ho characters decide to do next on their grand, conspiratorial adventure!

Really, if there are other alternatives, clue me in...I've been dealing with major work-related issues in real life and now, to top it off, my sinuses are completely blocked and I've become a mouth-breather...at least today...bleh.....

[Darren]

An appendix would be suitable. It would at least give me reminders of what to look for.

[Jeff]

darren said:

....Pel will act as the commander and Kal will put on the other Emerald Claw helmet and stay in the background as a soldier.

If the meeting is to be somewhat clandestine, it would not be wise to actually wear one of the Emerald Claw helmets. Unless you think the people in the docking tower would think little of an Emerald Claw soldier.

[Darren]

I meant once we actually get to the meeting. I mean, I assume that a dragonhawk landing at the tower at midnight would also draw attention, no? Or am I mis-judging the uniqueness of a dragonhawk rider?

[Jeff]

Perhaps the midnight part of it would make it stand out a lot, but a dragonhawk rider is not that rare. They're the "state bird" of Aundair and are often tamed and ridden by elite soldiers of the realm...though some non-military might have them, too.

Plus, Lyrandar docking towers, while designed for ships, is also used for any flying animal or device. House Lyrandar's headquarters in the city of Stormhome has part of their docking tower used to land rocs.

However, a dragonhawk at midnight is just oddly timed. That's all.

[Darren]

Oh, well....given that, then, I guess maybe we shouldn't wear the helmets, which then means that Kal will also hide out of sight while Pel has the meeting, since Kal would no doubt be recognized.

[Jeff]

*sigh*

What's the problem, guys? Are we playing this game or not? I keep having to wonder if this is worth my time, and I had originally thought it was.

[Joe]

I was preparing for my big final psych eval today, but I was both shocked and amazed that no one has posted here in over four DAYS!!!! Am I the only player actually playing any more???

[Darren]

I was trying not to dominate the conversation, especially since it's really Ralsor and Grafth right now....

[Jeff]

I'd like to push for a new rule, then.

If your intent is to not post again until someone else does something, state this in out-of-character (pink) text in your last post. This would help us all, I suspect. So we don't all just look on in silence, waiting for someone else take the reins.

If you don't say this, then we'll all be expecting you to chime in and take some action.

[Darren]

In all fairness, though, it's not that Kal COULDN'T act right now, it's that I'm trying not to because we originally agreed that Grafth would take the lead in talking to Ralsor. Now, I don't know what's going on personally for Josh right now, but I'm sure there's some reason he hasn't posted anything, yet, and I'd guess it has nothing to do with the fact that he's waiting on Kal.

[Jeff]

Even so, waiting for someone else to act—for days—doesn't mean your post has to be about direct, bold new action. It's just existing in the world. I don't know. Be creative? Just be present, you know?

I'm going to second my rule.

[Jeff]

Hey, all: After further thought, I am going to post a sort of synopsis thread (with helpful links) to help you guys keep track of what's happened before and how things got to where they are now. I think you'll find soon that you'll have a clearer idea of what-do-we-do-next, and this thread I'm creating should help in that.

[Jeff]

Darren wrote:

There is a rope currently at Pel's feet, and the other end is on the ship, so it could be possible to tie the rope off to the railing and have Grafth tie the other end off to himself. Although, I imagine that trying to tie a knot while being attacked by the dragonhawk might get Grafth killed...

Most of what you're talking about accomplishing at the moment you simply wouldn't have time for. The dragonhawk's in the process of flying away from the dock and Grafth's about to grab hold. Tying knots, even gathering and then throwing a rope at it at the same time while it's still within range to do so is near impossible.

Jeff, can you tell us the relative weight difference between the airship and the dragonhawk?

No way would Kal know something like this. Only a member of House Lyrandar who's spent time around airships—and more appropriate, at their construction docks (most of which are built in the gnome land of Zilargo)—would have a guess at something like this. The airship is certainly heavier than the dragonhawk, but then airships are mostly made of soarwood, a magically buoyant and exotic wood that makes it light weight.

If you could somehow tie the dragonhawk to the ship, it would likely keep it from flying away. But doing so in the time alotted isn't realistic.

[Jeff]

Chapter 2 may be winding down soon. I'm going to ask all of you for a status report.

1. How's it going?
2. Are you having fun in DE?
3. Are you going to keep on keeping on?
4. What's missing? What would help?

And I'll end this post with a very strong request:

If you're not sure what your character is going to do in a given moment (especially during combat), please don't just not post. That would just make me either (a) wait for you or (b) skip you, thinking you're just AWOL with no explanation. If you're not sure what to do, post just that. It's honest.

And a couple of you have one just that. That's something. This is a shared story and we're all contributors. If your character is just standing around letting someone else take the lead, then give us a description: what's he look like as he's standing there doing nothing? Tapping his foot impatiently? Lacing up his boots? Sighing with exasperation? I can't emphasize enough how much this game isn't about me telling a tale and getting occasional one-liner responses from the players. It's a collective story. That's what I love most about RPGs. Don't take that away from me!

Please make any comments right here. Share with the group.

[Josh]

1. How's it going?
It's going good... my leg is a little sore today, but otherwise... good. Seriously, though I think it's going well, aside from inconsistent posting all around (it's a struggle, eh?)

2. Are you having fun in DE?
For the most part. I've had my share of "why bother" moments, but when everyone is posting and getting into the ROLE PLAYING stuff, it's great fun. I've stated before that I really prefer the deeper conversational stuff and talking through things, conversations with NPCs, and mystery solving... but the action is good as long as everyone actually participates in it to move it along at the pace it deserves.

3. Are you going to keep on keeping on?
Yep, definitely.

4. What's missing? What would help?
I don't know if anything is missing per se, but we all know that it works best when everyone feels interested and emotionally involved in the story, the characters, etc. Your task is a hard one, Jeff, as we all have different ideas about what makes for the best game, but ultimately I'm here to play your game, so I want you to give us what you want. I love your description, dialogue, characterization, etc., and so the more of that I can get, the better.

Your point about "don't just do nothing" is extremely valid and vital to the game's continuance. All of us PCs need to demand description, elaboration, and flourish from you. How do we do this? By asking for it in-game. Maybe it seems like Grafth likes to "look around" a lot, but that's because I want to give the DM the opportunity to expound upon the situation. I'm just intuiting that that helps you, Jeff... hopefully that is the case.

[Joe]

1. How's it going?

All is well. Thanks for asking.

2. Are you having fun in DE?

Absolutely. My creativity and imagination are engaged in the story and the characters.

3. Are you going to keep on keeping on?

Absolutely.

4. What's missing? What would help?

Some definitive answers. There seems to be a whole lot of mystery and a whole lot of questions...but there just doesn't seem to be any answers brewing...just more questions. It can be frustrating. For me, I believe a chapter should end with some questions being answered definitively...and opening up more questions that need to be answered in the next chapter. So far, questions from the very beginning are still lingering and there seems to be only one real direction to go (or the characters have decided to only go in one direction...who can say for sure?).

I think what would help the most is having closure on some of the mysteries that the characters are involved in (who is Malov and what does he want? what does the book have to do with this? what is the emerald claw's involvment? what happened to Cutter?). Some of these questions are known to the PLAYERS, but the characters are still in the dark about many of these things and I think it would help them...and us...to get some more information (what is that damn book about anyway?).

THANKS, Jeff...and please know that you are doing an AWESOME job...I'm very much enjoying this experience and hope it continues for a good, long time!!