Chapter 16: Q&A / Discussion

[Ken]

Belarin is the Japanese soldier who still thought it was World War II.

[Dave W.]

really ken? i could imagine you doing a pretty good Thurston Howell III

[Jeff]

Jun 10, 2019 7:50:21 GMT -4 Dave W. said:

“It’s there.” Adamant points to the braizier, still not going in. “but i. still dont see it and it still appears and disappears.”

---

that brazier isnt in the circle holding Mr E, right?

Nope. It's quite outside the circle. Both braziers are.

[Jeff]

Jun 11, 2019 10:59:12 GMT -4 Darren said:

Let me know if that makes sense to everyone. The idea is for Belarin to ask leading questions, at which point when he thinks he's got the efreeti where he wants him, he calls for Kal who will quickly cast Detect Thoughts and enter the room to read the efreeti. Then we'll decide if Kal will stick with the spell or not.

I don't, obviously, want to cast it right in front of him. He'll probably recognize that.

Mostly fine. But when you cast the spell, it's still got components V, S, M, so he's got to speak the words, make the sematic gestures, and have his arcane focus (Skyfang) in hand and have eyes on the efreeti (since you need to see your target to cast it upon him), per the spell. You can only be so discreet. But it's not like you have to shout it and you can still stand outside the room 20 ft. from the efreeti.

[Darren]

Well, does he need to see the efreeti when he first casts it? Can't he cast it generically, or on someone else, and then shift his focus to the efreeti when he enters the room? He's got a minute for the spell and it does allow him to shift focus each round, so presumably as long as he gets into the room within that minute, he should be able to shift the same way he would during turn-based rounds, right?

[Jeff]

That's fine. Each round it can be shifted to another without "recasting." But 1 minute is very short, so keep it in mind.

[Ken]

I don't know what's happening right now, and it's GLORIOUS.

[Dave W.]

Jun 12, 2019 13:45:53 GMT -4 Ken said:

I don't know what's happening right now, and it's GLORIOUS.

I'm likewise confused, excited, and impressed...

You know what would be downright hysterical? If we manage to accidentally set the xorn and effreti free at the same time! Maybe we could get the dragon involved as well if we make enough noise!

[Elvis]

Oops.

[Ken]

By the way, I know I've been posting a lot yesterday and today. Considering that it's mostly a conversation that is excluding most of the party, I feel it's best to keep things moving so that everyone can get back in the action sooner rather than later. If I'm posting TOO quickly, let me know. All cool?

[Brian]

All cool by me.

[Elvis]

I've been sidelined enough times to remember my place.

Guarding the ship with my toys.

Probably the best spot for an NBC anyway.

[Jeff]

Wait. Be careful with the use of “I” or be very clear about who you mean.

Please please please don’t combine player feelings with character feelings right now. Usually there’s the good kind of synchronicity between player and PC mentalities...like when positive things are happening, but when that’s not the driving force, it’s best avoided.

And I for one would rather not worry about managing that right now. I’ve got some real life stresses right now that makes DE a thing I want to check in and have fun on.

[Ken]

If I'm responsible for this, I apologize, Elvis. It's all in character, truly. Belarin is working hard on this, and Thul's reaction has been essentially, "How badly is this failing? It'll never work." And Thul may well be right!

Belarin, as smart as he is, is also all impulse. He may come up with a clever scheme (the Nerrin Gambit), and he also makes plenty of ill-considered mistakes (the in-campaign list is endless!). But he's trying. And when Thul came in *during negotiations* and undercut him, he reacted strongly. That's it.

[Jeff]

One thing that does tend to undercut NPC interactions is fellow PCs gainsaying other PCs right in front of the NPC they're up against. Just no way around it. It makes the party look divided, and weakened.

In general, in-game, there's still a lot of resistance to the party following a single leader and sticking with a plan. I would look to that.

Out-of-game, just please be adults and separate what needs separating. I'm not going to tackle this further, as I'm actually trying to balance Father's Day weekend stuff with the very imminently possibility that I'm about to lose my last grandparent in the coming days. So that's why I'm just hoping DE remains good for basic escapism.

[Darren]

Taking this conversation OOC for a moment, because I really don't know the best course of action....

My gut says the Cave of Self is a bad idea. I don't really like any of our options, but I guess freeing the efreeti is the way to go? Thoughts?

[Brian]

We won't know which approach will work best. We just have to chance it. If you think freeing the efreeti is best, Darren, have Kal give the go ahead. I know it sounds unfair to put this on you, but you're the leader for this segment. Decisions like this come with the territory. I'll certainly go with whatever you decide.

[Jeff]

One thing I'll just add, and very briefly because I don't want to sway you guys one way or another.

There's been a bit of the telephone game in effect here, all just within your own group. Be careful of that! Each time certain a topic comes up, it seems to change with the telling. I'll give you an example. When you guys first saw that three of the trapped creatures were a xorn, a frost salamander, and an efreeti, it was pointed out that hey, that's three of the four elements. Then someone speculated that a fourth element was needed (air), which is a fair thought; it's a pattern, right? Then you guys moved forward with the assumption, definitively, that the dragon was "collecting" specimens of all four elements, and that's been a working assumption you're operating on. No NPCs ventured that idea. The earth elemental has no circle, in any case.

As for the Cave, this is really the only description you've had of it:

Apr 9, 2019 10:43:31 GMT -4 Jeff said:

The dragon says, "The Cave of Self is unique to Kythri; it has no analogue when the corner of another plane is pinned here. Yet it is where the petitioner—the one who studied the Traveler's Needle before I arrived—ventured in search of answers. You see, the Cave of Self shows its entrants parallels, other courses that one might have taken in life. A dangerous thing to face, as you can imagine. That is why I speak of risk. Not all who enter the Cave come back out. Few have, as I understand it. Those who do exit are not the same. Knowledge is perilous, as any spellcaster should know. Often one's greatest enemy comes not from without.

"In any case, it is my belief that the previous petitioner went into the Cave of Self seeking a version of himself who knew more about the Needle already. Should he speak to or become that version of himself, he would wield greater knowledge when he came back. It is...difficult to understand, unless you are a petitioner yourself, to understand why the Needle is important. Well, he hasn't come back out. I believe he perished within, as any might who enters."

"But if you do this and recover his remains and possessions, I would be inclined to assist you with your gate problem. Whatever the problem is."

When Adamant asks about numbers, Alazphraxilark says, "I am aware of no limitation. As many as fit, I suppose. It it not a very large place, and it is very close." The dragon points with a talon toward the southwest. "Or at least it appears close. The trammels of Kythri may have made passage more difficult, I cannot say. The ice flow you claim to have made spans the gap."

Then, later, Kal said:

"The cave is said to show alternate realities that might exist, and the dragon says that often one goes in there and speaks to other versions of oneself, going mad in the process."

Going mad? Kal should maybe not multiclass as a bard. Or...or maybe he should.

[Darren]

Huh. I guess that just seemed like something that might happen when talking to one's alternate self. Maybe I saw that in a movie or something....

Well, I don't love the cave idea. But we also haven't had the greatest luck with freeing demons in the past. Hmmm.....

[Jeff]

I'm not saying you can't go mad, just that no one but Kal has said that.

Also, maybe you're thinking of the Southern Oracle in The NeverEnding Story?

"Confronted with their true selves, most men run away, screaming!"

Still, that's not quite this.

[Brian]

You've got to pick one or the other, Darren. Unless someone has a better third alternative...?

[Darren]

Jun 17, 2019 12:17:37 GMT -4 Jeff said:

"Kalarian," Histra says, "If you intend to assert yourself as the replacement of Larest ir'Zathyran and lead this expedition, then you must make a decision swiftly. Do not leave it to chance. A servant of Olladra might let a coin decide, but you should not."

Sem chimes in. "There's a Zil trick to stalling such choices. See what one choice thinks of the other. Go and tell the efreeti that you'll do the other thing—get the dragon to release him—or go and tell the dragon you intend to release the efreeti on your own. Then see if that makes the decision for you. This could go horribly wrong, but at least you won't be standing around wondering." He shrugs with a smile.

Kal hears Brack in his head, courtesy of the ring he wears. Fill me in, Kal. What does Captain Thul standing on the bridge, looking my way but not actually waving or shooing me away signify? He looked to be crossing, but has stopped suddenly.

I'm just gonna say this once by way of complaining, and then I'll try not to bring it up again, but here's what I hate about this....I have tried, in the past, to take control of the situation and make decisions for the group, and then no one actually follows them. And then we get into situations like there and everyone tells me I have to make a decision and I'm once again left to wonder whether or not anyone actually will do what I say again. It's frustrating.

Okay, I'm done. Let me think about the best option and I'll post again later today.

[Dave W.]

Well if we're comparing to Larest, to be fair we never really listened to him either...

[Dave W.]

I'm also not sure there is a wrong answer here. Either moves the narrative along. We don't have access to info that makes one choice or the other a certainty.

OOC and based on what we know, the Cave of Self sounds like it could be a great deal of fun (role-play wise) but could also take a long time to get through. Freeing the effreti seems straight forward (assuming the spells work) and I'm guessing will take only a minute or two of casting.

There's no guarantee with either. We will do our best with whichever route we go.

[Jeff]

Think of it like this. A Choose Your Own Adventure book offers choices that are, ultimately, somewhat arbitrary. Sometimes if you choose to go down the left-hand tunnel, the page you turn to kills you in a single page. You couldn't have anticipated it. In real D&D, it's not even close to be that random. Each choice splits into five more and, hopefully, all of them will prove to be fun.

As for Kal coming up with a plan and everyone not following, that's true. The party, in general, is terrible at not following their own impulses in the moments. To be fair, most D&D groups are this way. Discipline is rare, rare, rare. You guys do break ranks and split off all the time. The question is, how to handle it in character.

That said, Kal still did step forward and seize the official leadership in Larest's stead. So you do have to kind of live with that choice. Or officially abdicate and work up a new system.

[Brian]

This could be a major encounter. An efreeti. A dragon. An effretti and a dragon. Elementals. A frost salamander. A xorn. Sladii. Non-linear timelines. Who knows what else. It could be epic in terms of danger and reward.

Elvis, do you really intend to have Thul sit this one out?

[Jeff]

Guys.

Posting out-of-character thoughts that are not also spoken aloud by characters is understood to be informing other players, not other characters.

And one thing I really want to encourage all of us as adults to do: to please not be passive aggressive as this absolutely isn't the right game for it. So if you think something is relevant to the story, yes, post it. Otherwise...

Jun 18, 2019 11:25:20 GMT -4 Darren said:

Kal nods at Streko. "See if you can go convince the Captain to come back. If he insists on going back to the ship, so be it. But be quick. I want you with us when we begin."

Kal grimaces at the idea of Melethos and the others staying outside the room. "Okay, he says. So be it. Belarin and I will go in and cast at the circle. I want Adamant between us. So we position ourselves like this," Kal scratches a circle into the dust on the floor, positioning himself on one side of it, to the west, opposite Belarin on the east, with Adamant at the northern point. "Melethos and Shorak, you remain outside the door here," he says, indicating the southern point of the circle. "That way, even without you in the room, we still have the fiend surrounded. Sem, you remain glued to Melethos' side. If we get sucked into that circle, it's your job to get us back out. Now," Kal places a hand on his chin, looking down at the circle, "do we need more spell-power than just Belarin and I? Do Histra or Streko need to be involved in the casting? If not, then I want Histra and her skeletons guarding Melethos' back, watching behind us for any trouble. And Streko can remain with Melethos to provide assistance out here if things go badly. Should the Captain choose to return, he can remain by Histra's side and make sure our rear is covered. Are we agreed?"

If everyone's in agreement with Kal, then I'll do my best to arrange the PC icons on the map accordingly when you indicate the action of beginning this plan.

Also, to Sem's recent point, what I'm driving out mechanically is: he's suggesting that Animate Objects or Telekinesis is mightier for this plan than a 3rd-level Dispel Magic. But you can also choose to use a higher slot of Dispel Magic, for those using it.

[Dave W.]

I'm fine with moving but will want to cast bless just before the big spells are thrown.

[Brian]

I'm good with the plan.

[Darren]

Okay. Just gonna wait for any Streko/Thul interaction before pulling the trigger on the plan.