Chapter 9: Q&A / Discussions

[Brian]

Darren, that could very well be wronng. I probably didn't understand the posts enough to put it together. It's been a hard week.

If I got it all wrong, I sincerely apologize.

[Dave B.]

I'm all for taking down the mage to protect our air bubble. Shorak won't take any penalties for using his crossbow, so I'll have him attack the mage with that.

[Jeff]

Well, this is going to be the initiative, if you initiate combat (which it sounds like you all are). Invisible Castle may be back up, though I generated these numbers without.

22 = Adamant
16 = Kal
15 = Sarquaa and his posse
15 = Streko
13 = Shorak
13 = Belarin
12 = Condign
12 = Hras'Ka and his crew

And a reminder on watery combat:

While in the air bubble, you can move and speak and attack as normal. If you leave the air bubble, you have to (1) hold your breath and (2) swim.

(1) Holding your breath: You can actually hold your breath for a ridiculously long time, when it comes to it. 3 minutes! However, if you take damage while holding your breath, you risk suffocation. Then Endurance checks get involved and you can lose healing surges, etc. We'll deal with that if we come to it.

(2) Swimming: Make an Athletics check DC 10 to swim through calm waters (or 15, if they get rough). If you succeed, then you can swim as part of your normal move action, though you must spend 1 extra square of movement for each square you enter while swimming (like difficult terrain). If you fail the check, you simply don't move. And if you fail the check by 5 or more, you also sink 1 down one square (should you not be on the ground).

Finally, when fighting underwater, the following modifiers apply:

• Creatures using powers that have the fire keyword take a –2 penalty to attack rolls.

• Characters using weapons from the spear and crossbow weapon groups take no penalties to attack rolls with those weapons while fighting underwater. Characters using any other weapon take a –2 penalty to attack rolls.

• Creatures native to watery environments have the aquatic ability. They gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls against opponents that do not have this ability. Aquatic monsters, such as sahuagin, are noted as such.

In short, the main disadvantage is that the sahuagin all have a +2 on attack rolls against you. If you use fire or any weapons other than spear-types and crossbow-types, you have a -2 on the attack roll. Spells for the most part work normally.

[Darren]

Do they get the +2 against us when we're in the bubble? Technically we're not in the water, right?

[Jeff]

Yes, they still do. This is their world. The bubble is just giving you breathable air and only a tiny bit of space to move around in.

If a sahuagin were to enter the bubble and fight you, I'd waive that bonus, though.

[Joe]

Did you forget Streko's order in the initiative roll? Also, per the map, I don't know which one of the fish things is the mage. It might not be in range of Streko's casting abilities.

[Jeff]

Well, crap, yes I did. I'll update my post above to include Streko's part of the round. Sorry! (I'll also update the map.)

Edit: Okay, map updated. The presumably spellcaster sahuagins (both Hras'Ka's and Sarquaa's) have an extra little "s" on their icons. The one on Sarquaa's side is right behind him. For now.

[Dave W.]

Sept 17, 2011 5:11:22 GMT -4 Brian said:

Minor Action: none
Standard Action: uses Form a Line on the party.

Jeff, the wall starts with Condign then goes 1 sq N, 1 sq W, 2 sq S, 1 sq W and 2 sq N. That should cover everyone.

Not complaining and I don't know the power, but that's not much of a line...

[Jeff]

Heh. Power titles don't always make sense, Dave.

My favorite laughable power title is the 3rd level ranger power Thundertusk Boar Strike, which can be made with either melee weapons or with a ranged weapon. Something about shooting an arrow doesn't make me think of boars or ridiculous compound words.

[Dave W.]

Brian, I don't know the Form a Line power. Is the line moveable? Adamant is going to be pretty useless if we can't close. I've used the one ranged power I have and though I could throw the sword (after making it a spear) that will be once and done.

Anyway, I do think we need to hit the mage and hit hard and fast. I'd like to see him get at least bloodied this turn.

[Jeff]

Dave, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Unless Kal intends to move the bubble around during the fight (which is entirely possible), Condign's form a line power can still benefit anyone who just sits back and uses ranged attacks.

Now, Condign's walk the line power is another matter. That one instantly dresses him in black and gives him an acoustic guitar.

[Jeff]

Although, Brian, I could use some help interpreting your walll.

Jeff, the wall starts with Condign then goes 1 sq N, 1 sq W, 2 sq S, 1 sq W and 2 sq N. That should cover everyone.

Do you mean 1 square north from Condign, then 1 square west from there, then 2 squares south from there....or does each directional instruction radiate out from Condign? I'm a little lost.

These are the rules around forming walls:

Wall: A wall fills a specified number of contiguous squares within range, starting from an origin square. Each square of the wall must share a side—not just a corner—with at least one other square of the wall, but a square can share no more than two sides with other squares in the wall (this limitation does not apply when stacking squares on top of each other). You can shape the wall however you like within those limitations. A solid wall, such as a wall of ice, cannot be created in occupied squares.

[Dave B.]

Hey Ken - Do any of the DDI updates you spoke of affect rogues?

[Brian]

Okay, back from a day of golf, where I won . . . a new driver, eight rounds of golf, and a $60 bottle of scotch. ;D

Okay, about the wall: It is 1 square north of Condign, then one square west of that, then two square south of that, then one square west of that, then two squares north of that. Or something similar to what I'd said.

It's a linear formation, not radiating outward.

Dave: the wall doesn't move, which is why I suggested we either keep to ranged attacks or draw the others closer.

[Jeff]

FY: I've worked out a wall arrangement with Brian. But I'm out of time to post this morning. I'll try tonight, late.

[Ken]

Sept 17, 2011 12:45:12 GMT -4 Dave B. said:

Hey Ken - Do any of the DDI updates you spoke of affect rogues?

Not yet. There was a "playtest" article on the D&D website in early summer that included some changes to rogue powers (mostly in the upper Paragon and the Epic tiers), but those changes haven't been made official yet and aren't reflected in the online D&D Compendium. This year's warlock's changes, in contrast, happened very quickly, with the gap between "playtest" and "official" changes being less than 2 months.

[Dave W.]

FYI, Adamant hasn't challenged the the shaman not in the Paladin Challenge way.

[Jeff]

Sept 19, 2011 21:30:09 GMT -4 Dave W. said:

FYI, Adamant hasn't challenged the the shaman not in the Paladin Challenge way.

Oh, right. Sorry. It throws me off when you mention challenging when in fact you're not challenging.

[Darren]

Also, if Kal had been standing in Condign's wall formation, he wouldn't have been hit by the shaman's attack.

I'm confused by this. Kal's NOT standing inside of the wall formation? He hasn't moved. Was he not inside of it to begin with? The note on the map just says "+2 if adjacent to an ally inside of the wall formation". Kal is adjacent to several allies.

In fact, if I'm reading what Brian wrote above correctly (and I just drew it out to be sure), Kal is definitely standing inside of the formation.....

[Jeff]

Ahh, this is a confusion of what it means to be within a power's effect. See the red squares? Those are the wall. Kal is standing in the doughnut hole. You have to be standing on one of the power's area of effect, which are those Condign-colored squares I placed on the map.

It helps to think of it like the wall it's supposed to be. A line formation, which just happens to curve around and look like a doughnut. So that hole in the middle where Kal is standing doesn't benefit from its effect.

Kal did benefit from Streko's power, of course.

[Brian]

Yeah, Darren, that was my fault. How I had originally wanted the wall was invalid. I had to redo it. And Kal got stuck in the donut hole. Sorry.

[Dave B.]

These guys are going to be tough to hit. Anyone have anything to boost our attacks?

[Darren]

Oh. Had I known that, I probably would have moved.

Oh well. That's the life of an adventurer.

[Jeff]

To be fair, the sahuagin are for the most part balanced with your level. And you do have allies helping out. It's Sarquaa who's tougher, both by level and by his being elite. ;D

[Jeff]

Sept 20, 2011 10:16:35 GMT -4 Darren said:

Oh. Had I known that, I probably would have moved.

Oh well. That's the life of an adventurer.

Also....it's a reasonable development. This is the first time Condign is using this nifty power, and it takes getting use to, both for him to form and for his allies to cooperate with it.

Since when does Kal cooperate with his allies?

[Ken]

Sept 20, 2011 10:06:53 GMT -4 Dave B. said:

These guys are going to be tough to hit. Anyone have anything to boost our attacks?

If there's anything that anyone can do to force these guys to grant combat advantage, that's a plus. Adamant was able to do that briefly, but -- mostly due to the unfortunate and RARE instance of Adamant and the bad guys going before most of us -- the effect didn't last long enough.

I know that most of the rogue attacks are against AC, Dave, but if you happen to have a power that could target the shaman's Reflex or Fortitude, use it. (His Will defense is probably high.) And that advice goes for everyone. For the rest of the sahuagin, Reflex and Will are probably the lowest. I'm being a good boy and not checking the Monster Manual.... but oh, it's tempting....

[Brian]

The only attack that Condign has that grants combat advantage is Brash Assault--but I have to be next to an enemy to use it. I'm willing to move out of the bubble for a couple rounds and use it against either the shaman or Sarquaa. I'd prefer to give Shorak the combat advantage, since his class can take advantage of it rather well. And he'd have to be within five squares of my target.

My only question to Jeff: can Condign leave the wall area but still maintain it?

[Jeff]

I'm being a good boy and not checking the Monster Manual.... but oh, it's tempting....

Plus, don't think I don't mess with Monster Builder.

My only question to Jeff: can Condign leave the wall area but still maintain it?

Good question, and without digging deep in the rules I'm not really sure. But I'm going to rule for now that you can maintain it even if you leave it. It's not like the defensive line is moving. It just had to include you to be formed in the first place.

[Dave W.]

This is very exciting.... I've got ongoing damage!!!

I've had this racial +2 bonus to save vs ongoing damage and I'm finally going to use it!!! Woot!!

It fills me with a near child-like glee!!

[Dave B.]

I don't think Shorak has any plans of leaving the bubble, unless he's forced to. I'll see if he has anything vs. something other than AC.