Chapter 8: Q&A / Discussions

[Darren]

Jeff, when do saving throws actually take effect? If Kal makes his saving throw this round, does weakened end this round or next?

[Brian]

Gentlemen, it may be time to consider under what circumstance we would initiate a strategic retreat. I'm out of big damage powers (had my last roll been a little bit better, Vampire #4 would be seriously hurting). We still have some good hit points, but we are spread too thin to effectively bring down these more powerful vampires. And I suspect everyone else is running low on major powers, too.

Just a topic to throw into the meat grinder.

[Jeff]

Saving throws always happen at the end of your turn. So whatever you failed to shrug off at the end of your last turn affect your actions. The exception to this is if an ally grants you an immediate saving throw on their turn.

Also, I think Kal still has 2 instances of weakness to try and get rid of. So that's two saves to make, Darren, at the end of Kal's turn.

[Jeff]

Errr...forget that last part. I believe you only need one save to rid yourself of multiple instances of the exact same effect. So just one roll is needed.

[Dave B.]

Okay, V4 is out of Shorak's face. I'll shift him behind that Emerald Claw so he can flank and get combat advantage. I need to get him in a better position to use his boomerang. I can go after Krez or the other vampires then.

Thank you Jeff for rolling well for Shorak's opportunity attack.

[Ken]

Mar 13, 2011 12:29:31 GMT -4 Brian said:

Gentlemen, it may be time to consider under what circumstance we would initiate a strategic retreat. I'm out of big damage powers (had my last roll been a little bit better, Vampire #4 would be seriously hurting). We still have some good hit points, but we are spread too thin to effectively bring down these more powerful vampires. And I suspect everyone else is running low on major powers, too.

Just a topic to throw into the meat grinder.

Agreed. At this point, let's try to grab Lerrhana and get out of here. I'm out of daily and encounter damaging attacks, and if someone else drops or gets dominated again, or if those Claw reinforcements get out of the cabins (I think that was Darren's idea - if so, bravo!), we're in deep doo-doo. We've still got, I believe, one instance each left of Inspiring Word and Healing Word. If Belarin is to grab Lerrhana next round, which is what I'm thinking of doing, I'll probably need some healing help since Belarin will draw at least one opportunity attack.

And at the very least, we'll have soured this captain's relationship with Krez and the Claw. Wish I had time to grab that sword in Krez's coffin, though....

Oh! Just read your IC post, Brian! Cool. Yes, stand the fallen does the healing trick nicely, thank you.

[Ken]

Just to follow up on the last post, here's what I'm thinking:

Next round, Belarin grabs Lerrhana. It'll draw an opportunity attack, but he can handle it (especially thanks to the healing surge triggered by Condign). Then, to quote Michael Biehn in Aliens, "We. Are. LEAVING!" (Cue the pulse-pounding' James Horner soundtrack.) The following round, Belarin can try a new trick that may (with a VERY good roll) allow him to leave the room with Lerrhana without being touched. Obviously, Krez will not be happy that Belarin has grabbed his girlfriend. Hopefully, the zombies can run interference while we all get out of there. Everybody else may want to go to Total Defense (standard action) and start moving out at that point, or do two move actions if you're in good shape. Once we're by the stairs, the vampires can't follow without risking exposure. Then up the stairs and over the edge.

If any crewmember is standing by the doorway as we leave, Bull Rush them out of the way.

[Darren]

I'm not sure that's going to work, and I don't think just running out the door is the best plan. I think we should look for a more strategic exit, if necessary.

You are correct that we are spread too thin right now. I think the first thing we need to do is attempt to gather back together. I would recommend gathering on Streko, Condign and Adamant, since they're near the door. But I think we should fight our way towards those positions. I don't think it's going to be that easy to just run out the door and up the stairs without getting killed.

And who knows, if we do that, we may be able to actually beat Krez. Which brings me to my next point. I think we should concentrate all of our attacks on him. 1 - I don't know exactly how vampires work, but if we take him out, it may cause issues with the other vampires. Maybe they won't want to fight. Who knows? 2 - He's the most dangerous foe in the room right now.

The other thing I was thinking was that Krez went through a lot of trouble to bring Lehranna aboard. What if someone grabs her and threatens her? Could get get Krez to stand down?

[Ken]

The main thing I'm worried about, Darren, are the Claw reinforcements. They'll get out of those jammed doors soon, cutting off any hope of retreat when that happens. And I considered threatening Lerrhana, but if Krez calls the bluff, then what? Either we fight our way out with her, or we kill her. Either way, it's still a fight.

Also, when the DM's description has things like "loud banging on the doors" or "'The Master is far from beaten,'" reassessing the situation seems wise.

[Dave W.]

I think getting out of here may be difficult. I'm all for us forming back up instead of getting all spread out.

Let me see if I can fix Kal... I can throw him a save on my turn with a +4 mod. Maybe if we can get him effective we can get through this.

The only other idea I have is if someone can find a way to either pop one of those portholes (oh, for a Warp Wood spell) or punch a hole in the wall or ceiling. I don't have a way to do that...

[Ken]

No, but if those portholes covers are made of iron, two or three good hits should break one open. Might be something to work on.

[Mike]

I'd work on the portholes.

My main issue with "let's cut and run" is that by the time we're assembled and headed back out the doors, reinforcements will probably be arriving. Which still leaves us in a bad spot.

My thought is either 1) defeat Krez, and hopefully use that as a position from which we can bargain with the Emerald Claw, or 2) create an "emergency exit". Such as the portholes.

[Mike]

BTW, I still think we can beat Krez, which is why I'm reluctant to retreat.

Syrdan, I think, is capable of dealing pretty serious damage to Krez if he can just engage in melee combat with the bastard. The guy keeps slipping away.

[Jeff]

I absolutely don't want to say anything to steer you in one direction over another—I really enjoy this sort of tactical talk from the sideline—but since all you have is text in place of physical descriptions most of the time, I will say this.

You know how in movies—and, I suppose, in real life—they hammer wood planks over windows to board them up? The ones around the portholes are custom-sized so that they're larger their the portholes, are made of iron or steel, and have been bolted to the wood all around. It's not that you couldn't pry them off, but you'd have to make a succession of very good Strength checks to make progress on them. If one were pried off, you'd definitely let sunlight in, but they're not even large enough for actual exiting through.

[Darren]

I agree with what Mike says. I just don't think we're going to be able to get past all of the Claw sailors. I'm hoping that if we take out Krez, like Mike says, we may have some bargaining ability. It may come down to having to surrender in order to save our lives and effecting an escape later, but not before we take out Krez.

And Dave, if you could get Kal back in the game this round, that would be incredibly helpful. I've still got an action point and both of my Daily powers left. In addition, Kal's got spells that can deal with groups of enemies, plus he's got the inherent threat of fire which might be enough to bargain our way off of the ship. After Krez is dead....

[Dave W.]

Well Darren, get ready to poet and action point your heart out! One save (with a +4 bonus) coming up!

And if we're looking at bolted on porthole covers then you're looking at many rounds of undisturbed work with a crowbar. We would need a magical means of dealing with them. Anyone have Magneto on speed-dial?

[Ken]

The DMG has a section on damaging objects, which is where I got the "two or three good hits" from. I had thought of Belarin and Shorak taking turns attacking the covered porthole near Shorak, which I believe is the only one visible; the rest are still behind curtains.

Jeff: Belarin was right next to that area when Shorak pulled back the fabric, so he presumably got a look at the porthole. Considering that and knowing the amount of damage he does with his eldritch blast, what's his rough guess as to how many strikes it would take to destroy that covering?

[Jeff]

The iron porthole caps will have an AC of their own; then you're looking at about 50 hit points to break through. You'd actually have a better chance blasting a hole through the wooden hull itself than bothering with the metal porthole seals.

[Ken]

Thanks, Jeff.

I'll go with the majority on sticking this out, if that's where this is going. I'm mostly concerned that we've done relatively little damage for 2 straight rounds (due to bad dice rolls), Emerald Claw reinforcements are imminent, and Krez - who is either an Elite bad guy or maybe even a Solo - isn't bloodied and will likely recharge some of his nastier powers soon.

Just sayin'.

[Dave B.]

I'm more than willing to have Shorak start going to town on the wood around the portholes. My question is should I have him start on his next turn or try to take out that one Emerald claw soldier first. I could also have Shorak close and lock the door at some point to help keep out any other claws. I think the porthole and the door would be easier if I can backstab (I know old term, but that is what he would be doing) the Emerald Claw next to Streko.

[Darren]

Jeff, I modified my post to show the second saving throw. Looks like Kal is finally back in the game.

Except that I'm sure he'll become a vampire snack again this round.

[Mike]

Mar 13, 2011 22:18:42 GMT -4 Ken said:

Thanks, Jeff.

I'll go with the majority on sticking this out, if that's where this is going. I'm mostly concerned that we've done relatively little damage for 2 straight rounds (due to bad dice rolls), Emerald Claw reinforcements are imminent, and Krez - who is either an Elite bad guy or maybe even a Solo - isn't bloodied and will likely recharge some of his nastier powers soon.

Just sayin'.

Oh, I'm concerned as well.

My issue is more that our escape route may involve fighting through more of the Emerald Claw, and we'd be leaving Krez at our backs. That's not entirely an appealing option, either, and I suspect it might be equally as deadly.

For the moment, if we can ever pour some damage on Krez, I think we might be in a position to bargain with the Emerald Claw if we can bring him down. ("Look, our quarrel was with Krez, not with you. Now that he's dead, we have no wish to fight with you and shed even more blood ... both yours and ours.")

If we cut and run, I don't think we can.

[Darren]

I'm with Mike on this one. Krez first, then we might have to do some negotiating. Worst case, we take down Krez and then try to blow a hole in the side of the ship. But, as Mike says, if we ALL concentrate our attacks on Krez, I think we might be able to take him down. Look how well it worked on the shadow hound.

[Dave B.]

I'll keep trying to hit things but it's starting to look like I might have to start chopping at the boards around the porthole near me, it may be the only thing I can hit.

[Darren]

Don't be so sure, Dave. Those boards can be pretty wily.....

;D

[Mike]

Does the current hit point listing reflect hit points regained Condign's "Stand the Fallen" attack?

[Jeff]

No. That's why I asked who's taking advantage. I assume everyone is, but I want to be clear.

[Mike]

In that case, Syrdan is definitely taking advantage of it.

[Brian]

Count me in for the heals. ;D

[Ken]

Jeff, I changed my post a bit. I'm maintaining the effect on Krez, but I'm not going to slide him this round.