Chapter 1: Q&A / Discussion

[Jeff]

Certainly, Jeff can then privately contact the poster and let them know that they are heading away from the story...or Jeff can steer them back if he has to.

To be clear, unless one of the PCs states that they're going to head off into the fields to become a farmer and give up the whole adventurer thing altogether, then they can't really head away from the story.

I'm not going to tell you what the story is and isn't. If the whole group decides to leave the city and go away from everything that looks like it's getting interesting....the story will have its own way of following.

You don't have to color within the lines.

Just don't be surprised if the lines follow the color....

[Joe]

Jeff...my point exactly! ;D

[Jeremy]

Right.

Well, I'd like to say that I'm not planning on changing my style or approach.

I'm not trying to be obstinate, everyone should do what seems to right to them, it is just a game after all (and a good one!).


So with that...once more into the breach!

[Jeff]

On a new topic, just something I wanted to mention. When you look at the grid maps I post, bear in mind that although it might look crowded sometimes, it really isn't.

Five feet square is actually rather large. The symbols I use to represent the characters (incidentally, do they work for you?) are large enough so we can read the letters well enough, but they don't represent how much space the characters occupy in those spaces. It's just a combat thing. In combat, to effectively maneauver and fight, each character gets his own 5 ft. square to stand in. There's room to swing a weapon (well, most weapons) and dodge.

But you can easily scoot by fellow PCs without a proble. It's enemies that are harder to skirt. Some of you are new to the modern D&D rules, so I just wanted to mention this.

[Lara]

What does Pellorien know about warforged? That is, do her mind-affecting spells have any effect on them, or do they as a rule have some kind of immunity to the kinds of magic at which she excels?

[Jeff]

A fair question. Here, I'll list what I consider to be the most common knowledge type of facts about warforged physiology:


Racial Abilities:

— Do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe.
— A basic resilience. (Critical hits are harder against them.)
— Immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain.
— Cannot heal damage without magic or repair.
— Healing spells are only half as effective on them.
— Merely disabled in lieu of "dying" (between -1 and -9 hit points, though when they reach -10 hit points they're as dead as a person can be).
— Can still benefit from consumable spells and magic items (potions, etc.).
— Are not immune to mind-affecting spells.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I understand the warforged is disabled. I don't understand the meta-gaming. The character has a genuine interest in incapacitating/disabling rather than killing. Isn't having Pellorien figure out her limitations part of play? All right, well... here's a rogue-centered course of action.

Not really meta-gaming, Lara. I'm just trying to point out that most laymen (in regards to warforged) just won't know the difference between a warforged lying, damaged and inert, and a warforged dead. Unless, of course, the warforge has been torn limb from limb and is decapitated. Then death is pretty evident.

And this is a limitation anyone would know about themselves already. Even if Pellorien had never seen (and only heard) warforged before, a quick glance at it tells her that it doesn't have a standard anatomy.

[Ed]

I have to agree with Lara on this one. It seems reasonable for Pellorien to try something like that even if Lara understands that it won't work in a game sense (and she does).

However, I don't think it's a big deal in the end. I think a problem with any game, especially PBP, is finding that balance just like we're trying to do here. We'll figure it out as we go.

[Jeff]

I follow.

I was just weighing in, as an Eberron DM, what I determined a character within the world would know, or not know.

I'll just let things play out as they will.

[Lara]

Jeff,

Could you please explain a little more about Taymra d'Orien? Specifically, how does she compare to the woman from Kal's house whom the group met with earlier?

Thanks!

[Jeff]

I don't really know what information you're looking for. (And I also don't want you to come back at me crying "meta-gaming" ;D)

The group hasn't spent too much time with her yet. So you only know a few obvious facts:

- She hasn't referred to herself with the title of "Lady," though she clearly bears a dragonmark of House Orien. In Eberron, merely possessing a dragonmark entitles you to being a "lord" or "lady." As you've seen Kal introduce himself as Lord Kalarian d'Deneith.

- She's obviously under the effects of Pellorien's charm person.

- She carries a rapier, seems stealthy enough, and has approached the group alone. Earlier in the day Pellorien saw her with a team of Orien agents.

What else is Pellorien trying to gauge?

[Darren]

admin said:

- She hasn't referred to herself with the title of "Lady," though she clearly bears a dragonmark of House Orien. In Eberron, merely possessing a dragonmark entitles you to being a "lord" or "lady." As you've seen Kal introduce himself as Lord Kalarian d'Deneith.

In all fairness, Kal has never referred to himself as Lord Kalarian. Others have done so, and he hasn't stopped them, but he never said it.

[Lara]

admin said:

What else is Pellorien trying to gauge?

More about her personality, I suppose.

At any rate, I think there are at least a couple reasons why Pellorien would respond to her more positively than she did to the Deneith woman. Thanks.

[Lara]

So do we just not know what to do about Locate Object and/or scrying, or did the actions and intentions of Pellorien, Streko and Kalarian regarding that possibility just get overlooked?

[Jeff]

Nothing's overlooked. The appropriate checks were rolled, so there was nothing to detect, everyone rolled low, or such spells cannot be identified with any of these skills.

Hence, this paragraph:

None of you feels any untoward attention upon the group right now. There are too many unknowns among the tavern crowd, but none are close enough to even eavesdrop. Only magic could allow someone in this very room to overhear. Beyond that...you sense nothing at all, no magical intrusions. But then, such things can be very difficult to detect.

If a spell like scrying is used against you, and if you make your Will save against the caster and foil the spell, you may become aware of the attempted intrusion. If you fail, you would have no idea.

[Lara]

Thanks for clarifying. My sense is that you usually note dice rolls in pink at the end of your posts, and I didn't see that.

[Josh]

I think Jeff only notes dice rolls when he's doing the rolling for one of us specfically, and when we can know the outcome. He just seems to be blending the rolls we can't know about into the story.

[Jeff]

Right. Some rolls can't be seen by you guys. I can explain it better, and list out which types I'm talking about, later. If you want.

Sense Motive is one of the most obvious ones, though. If you see that you rolled low, then you the player know you rolled low, not that your character fell for the person's Bluff.

[Jeff]

What original plan? Seriously...everyone's throwing out ideas but I didn't hear any kind of single "plan" until Tamyra's suggestion AFTER this exchange. And all I was trying to do was get some info out the rogue, re: his allegiances and what he might know about the scope of this business. There are few better ways to get information than to dangle money in front of someone.

But a plan? I remember something about bringing our enemies to some kind of face-off, but then I've heard nothing about that since it was mentioned, except that now the "plan" seems to be completely different.

Easy now, guys.

The problem probably comes from the fact that most plans have just been in the form of multiple recommendations, not solid agreements. Until everyone gets used to the best way to solidify a plan, let's remember that, eh?

[Jeremy]

Out-of-character discussions are often ignored if they're not in the game text, that's why it's there. I know you want us to avoid that, but I made a call on it.

Also, I don't actually think it's that out of character, Goran is the 'person' who annoyance is what my words represent. It's basically pink text of what Goran might say but I wanted it to have more gravity than just a miffed character reaction.

I'm not trying to pout or be deliberately grumpy, but I don't feel like we're getting much of anywhere. Seriously, Goran may just be there in the future as a sword and a ranger skill set, and keep his thoughts to himself. It just feels futile too much of the time to try and use reason. The only times we've really worked with any cohesion has been during combat.

I'm sure each of us has felt this way at some point in the adventure, and I'm not trying to say that I've been perfect or even that my ideas have always been good ones. But I'm weary of gainsaying that accomplishes nothing, that's all.

It's nothing personal.

[Jeff]

Okay. But I think there's got to be some separation between players and their characters. If you're character would be annoyed at what happened, say so in character. Play it out.

If it's just the player, then let's just discuss it here.

Sorry to jump in like this, but I've got to be a board moderator as well as a gameplay DM.

[Darren]

Jeremy, I wouldn't take it personally. That was Kalarian responding to another character diverting from what HE had decided was the plan.

That said, I do agree with you that I often don't feel like we're getting anywhere. We sit around for a large number of posts discussing what each of us thinks we should do, and then we go to do it and we do something completely different from what was discussed. I'm not sure how to resolve that. Do we need to have a point after discussion where Jeff pauses the game and says, "Here are the proposed plans, which one will you take?" and then we have a vote? I'm not really sure. I'm definitely open to suggestions on that one, because it would be good if we could start to work with some more cohesion.

[Josh]

Two things.

One, I think once again that there's a time issue with everything. These people have conceivably been sitting around a table for half an hour. Yes, it is a week in "real" time. I think some patience must be exercised by everyone- realize that in our game conversation can take place for days where in-game it is only five minutes. A plan of action, since we don't have a leader and seem to refuse to choose one, might actually take three out-of-game weeks to decide on. Isn't that alright? Let characters talk and such? I feel like everyone's always rushing around needlessly, because it feels like inactivity.

It's only inactivity if you make it feel like it. As a player, I don't really care what we're doing as long as I get to write the character. If it's talking, fine. Slashing, fine. But please remember that four days of us playing the game amounts to about ten minutes in-game. Pace it according to in-game, not out-of-game, and you may be a little more comfortable.

Two, we DO need a leader. No group of six people in the history of the world has been able to function without someone calling the shots. The characters in our game have already, to me, kind of destroyed the ability for this group to have a leader. It seems that every character is either highly opinionated, secretive, or unwilling to compromise. I didn't understand this (and still don't), but unless we allow our characters to be a little more group-oriented, we will stall at every crossroads.

I don't know the solution to that, because I've pretty much decided to alter my gameplay style and character a bit in order to make the group work, but more of us need to do that.

[Jeremy]

But you see, the problem is not one of being personally hurt or 'ticked off' or any such. I'm not. To be honest, it's not about the pace of the game either, it's really not. I don't care if it moves slowly or quickly, but what I don't like are these sudden shifts in tempo that cut me or others off in mid-play.

Here's the thing about a leader: As the game has progressed, pretty much from the moment we all stepped on the Rail, Kal or myself have, sometimes reluctantly, stepped in the leadership role most of the time. Grafth has sometimes jumped in there, when necessary.

The problems are thus: Kal's character has prevented him from becoming the chosen leader, because most or all of the party don't entirely trust him to always choose what's best for the party over what's best for Lord Kalarian and house Deneith.

Were I playing Kal's character, I'd play it the same way!

As for Goran, I can't speak with entire accuracy why, but probably his mood swings and sometimes gloomy nature have kept others reluctant. Plus I don't think Kal, a powerful aristocrat, can entirely swallow the idea of being led by a stranger, especially a half-human, long-haired loner from the western wilderness.

That said, Kal and Goran certainly have leadership qualities...or at least, tendencies.

Therefore I say that if we all think a central leader is important, we should put it to a vote. Of course it doesn't just have to be Kal or Goran, anyone else who thinks they or another should be leader, feel free to speak now.

[Darren]

I agree that the group needs a leader, and I think I've felt that way for a while. Perhaps we should put it to a (secret) vote? That way no one can get offended? Besides, just because the group has a leader, doesn't mean that everyone has to follow mindlessly. It simply gives us and Jeff a way of saying, "Everyone's opinion has been heard, here's the general plan and how we're moving forward." Variations can (and will) occur from character to character within that framework.

[Lara]

My experience has been that the group leader generally will out during the course of play. As has been noted already, we're all less pleasant, less forthcoming, less heroic-minded, less [insert adjective] personalities, for whatever reason, and it's just taking longer for cohesiveness to happen.

Ed and I were not really available to post for most of a week, and looking over things I'm not really sure what happened to start the discussion about plans and leaders. I re-read the last page or so of the thread again this morning, and my observation is that while there was a lot of talking going on there doesn't seem to have been acknowledgment for PCs' words from the other PCs. Three or four of us remarked on it not being safe to linger in the tavern, for instance, but nobody said anything like "I agree with X; let's get outta here."

I don't know. Maybe that's just the nature of PBP. Maybe that's just to be expected with a group that's still figuring out how to work together.

[Joe]

As players, I don't believe we SHOULD vote for a leader. When it omes down to it, the characters have to make that decision at some point. The truth is, there has really been very little play time in which something has NOT been happening. Perhaps, once the characters find themselves a safe place (they must ALL be low on spells and such...or just plain exhausted) where they can make up a cohesive plan, they can decide upon a leader then.

Up til now, however, there hasn't been an appropriate time to do so (what with unconscious rogues lying about, meetings being prepared and characters disappearing - when not being attacked).

Just my thoughts. As Laura says, more often than not, leadership will eventually happen. It helps when all the characters start off from the beginning in agreement, but makes it difficult when strangers are simply thrust together.

[Jeff]

I can't recommend it either way, except to say that leaders can seriously help the problems that have been occuring. But, I also ran a game for years and no leader was ever appointed. I don't think they just happen in their own good time.

[Darren]

I think my point about a leader for the group was really more of an out-of-game suggestion than in-game. Simply more of a representative, and someone who can make the decision and communicate to Jeff a general course of action for the group.

A recent example (in my opinion) of where a leader would have been useful was with what just happened with the rogue. We sat around for several posts, and I thought we had come to an agreement that we were going to get the rogue to carry a message back to his superiors and then find a way to get the word out that the group had the book, figure out a place to meet, and then set up that meeting with them. We had also agreed that Goran and Taymra would do the talking. Then, before we could really agree to do that or come up with the meeting place, the rogue was awakened and everyone started talking to him with their own interpretation of how to deal with him (threats, bribes, etc.) which meant that everything we had discussed previously had gone out the window and Jeff was now dealing with the reaction of an NPC who is suddenly faced with a group who appear to not know what they're talking about. In that situation, I think that a group leader could have said, "Okay, Jeff, we are going to go with this plan. We will get the rogue to carry a message for us. Goran and Taymra will speak. Let's go." Again, that's not to say that players are then restricted in what they'll actually do, but at least everyone knows that that IS the plan, whether they choose to follow it or not.

[Jeff]

Since it's suddenly very relevant, I thought I'd mention the game mechanics regarding fighting in tight quarters.

Basically, you can't share a space with anyone (in combat, anyway), not even allies. You can always pass freely through the space of an ally (as Grafth just did through Streko's space), but passing through an enemy's space requires a successful Tumble check (if you've got it).

Currently, Streko would be only be able to get around the warforged if he moves into the "half space" between his space and the wall. But, doing so slowly (moving only 5 ft. in a round) is the only way to do it without provoking a free attack from the warforged. Even then, if he wants to keep engaging the warforged in melee, he can't simply go into Grafth's space.

Worth thinking about, Joe.

Any questions?