Chapter 13: Q&A / Discussions

[Jeff]

No, no one can in their current size pull both levers at the same time. The levers were designed to be the effort of two. Also, try not to use this discussions threat to completely replace anything that can be talked out in character in the main thread. If it can't be discussed there, I'm fine with it being talked about here in reasonable ways.

[Brian]

I was intending to bring these up in character. I'm simply throwing out discussion points to think about. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. My bad.

[Darren]

Yeah, like Brian said, I just want to reason out a few things before bringing it all up in character.

Like, for instance, Kal COULD cast Dimension Door to get past the bars, if necessary, but he would need to use up most of his remaining Spell Points to create the slot to do it, and I was trying to hold that back for an emergency (which this could be). That's a tough one to bring up in character because a) it's a game concept and b) Kal has never actually used Dimension Door before, so in game-terms, he doesn't even really know that he's capable of it. I'll figure out a way to make it happen in game terms if we decide to do it, but it seems weird for Kal to strategize in-character about doing it when he technically doesn't even know he can do it.

So, that being said, the options are:

A) Ignore the undead-maybe-Adamant's warning and keep going south.
B) Go back north and hope that there's no Coin Lords behind the door and try the other passage. If there are, we're probably caught and going to prison (or getting executed) because I don't think we have the strength to fight it out.
C) Push past a hungry umber hulk and try the south-west passage which probably doesn't lead anywhere useful.
D) Have Streko scout one of the locked off passages and hope it leads somewhere, and if it does we can get Kal on the other side of the bars to help open the gate.

Jeff, I hope you will indulge the quick discussion about it here since we've already really gone through all of this in-character and I want to get each player's rule-based meta-gamey opinion on this before making an in-character decision about what to do.

[Jeff]

Why doesn't Kal know he can Dimension Door? Give him some credit. I know it's innate for him, but he can surely feel his own potential....which is what sorcery points are. It shouldn't be a surprise when he can cast a spell. Even if it's an imagination thing, he's got to be able to focus and concentrate and turn theory into reality. A sorcerer may never need to consult a book, but he doesn't just laze about and sleep late and never have to think about magic until the moment he does it. Any moment that passes in "down time" is still spent with magic in mind. It's part of him, as sure as his dragonmark is.

[Jeff]

May 25, 2017 11:09:10 GMT -4 Darren said:

Jeff, I hope you will indulge the quick discussion about it here since we've already really gone through all of this in-character and I want to get each player's rule-based meta-gamey opinion on this before making an in-character decision about what to do.

I'm fine with it if you really do intend to follow through with it in character, and don't make it, in the main thread, as if the group just reached all these reasoning conclusions out of nowhere with no talk.

[Darren]

May 25, 2017 11:29:24 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Why doesn't Kal know he can Dimension Door? Give him some credit. I know it's innate for him, but he can surely feel his own potential....which is what sorcery points are. It shouldn't be a surprise when he can cast a spell. Even if it's an imagination thing, he's got to be able to focus and concentrate and turn theory into reality. A sorcerer may never need to consult a book, but he doesn't just laze about and sleep late and never have to think about magic until the moment he does it. Any moment that passes in "down time" is still spent with magic in mind. It's part of him, as sure as his dragonmark is.

I guess. In the past, whenever Kal has gotten a new spell, it's always been sort of played as an in-the-moment discovery of some new power he's gained and not something he studied and learned how to achieve. Kal gained Dimension Door, I believe, somewhere between leaving Dollurh and getting to the lighthouse, so there wouldn't really have been a study period, anyway, even if it was something that we assume her pursued. Again, there are ways to play that and I'll come up with something.

[Brian]

Darren, if you want, you can start the in character dialogue by pointing out to Condign he was wrong about the levers. We can have our dialogue then. And the others will jump in, of course.

[Jeff]

Seems like you've been having a one-sided conversation about it, then! We've talked about these before. I don't think everything should be a total surprise to Kal. When he does cast a new spell, great, it can be a "Eureka" moment, but I think it ought to be more like "Whoa, I didn't think I could do that yet!" and less "Whoa! Where did that come from?" You're a sorcerer growing powerful quickly. That shouldn't come from no mental energy at all. Think of each spell he learns as having its original conception, its germ of possibility, in him for much longer. He might master it sooner than expected, but even an adolescent Kal back in Sentinel Tower will have had daydreams about teleporting himself instantly and shooting electricity from his fingertips, you know? It's all germinating in him all along.

[Darren]

Right. I didn't mean to imply that Kal doesn't know that something exists, but that he doesn't know that he's yet capable of doing it. In this instance, for example, Kal would probably look across the bars and think, "You know...I bet that if I were to just do....this...." and then suddenly he's on the other side. Y'know...that sort of thing. But he doesn't KNOW that he can do it, is my point.

Don't worry about it. I'm having a one-sided conversation out loud.

[Jeff]

May 25, 2017 14:41:15 GMT -4 Ken said:

He continues, "Streko, my friend, keep in mind that the transformation from the potion isn't something you can turn on and off like a lantern. You'll become gas for a decent amount of time, and you can resume your normal form with an act of will at any time, but once you're YOU again, you can't assume the gaseous form again. Understood?"

And don't forget this part of the spell:

While in the form of a misty cloud, the target can’t talk or manipulate objects, and any objects it was carrying or holding can’t be dropped, used, or otherwise interacted with. The target can’t attack or cast spells.

Frankly, if Condign or Adamant or Shorak did this, it wouldn't seem weird—they don't talk overmuch. But Kal, Belarina, and Streko going silent for up to an hour is quite an occurrence!

[Dave W.]

When I've played wizards and sorcerers, I've always played it that even though you don't get the ability to actually cast the spell until you level up, the character has been working on it all this time. We just don't focus on the scenes where the magic sputters ineffectively because they're not important.

All the characters have downtime. They have to spend some of it practicing new techniques, skills, or abilities. It just wouldn't be interesting to talk about that all the time.

OTOH, the scene where Kal draws up magical energy, declares he's going to walk right through that wall, and then ... BONK!... and he's rubbing his forehead... well, we'd all probably enjoy that...

[Darren]

May 25, 2017 16:26:13 GMT -4 Dave W. said:

When I've played wizards and sorcerers, I've always played it that even though you don't get the ability to actually cast the spell until you level up, the character has been working on it all this time. We just don't focus on the scenes where the magic sputters ineffectively because they're not important.

All the characters have downtime. They have to spend some of it practicing new techniques, skills, or abilities. It just wouldn't be interesting to talk about that all the time.

OTOH, the scene where Kal draws up magical energy, declares he's going to walk right through that wall, and then ... BONK!... and he's rubbing his forehead... well, we'd all probably enjoy that...

Precisely. Up to this point, that's the way I've always played Kal's new skills. He's not a studier. Most of these things are a surprise to him, and I like that. He knows he's getting more powerful...he's pretty well convinced of it, but there's a lot he doesn't understand about how it happens.

[Brian]

Jun 1, 2017 18:13:11 GMT -4 Darren said:

Kal places a hand in front of Condign and shakes his head. "No, my friend. It is saying Argushem. Llash-Tava's mate." To the umber hulk, "Yes, we were asked by Argushem to free his mate and have undertaken to do so."

This is an good example of how poorly I do with puzzles and riddles and such.

[Dave W.]

Nice call back Jeff... "Remember this morning"

[Jeff]

Jun 4, 2017 20:44:12 GMT -4 Brian said:

Condign will wait to see if Kalarian responds, or if the umber hulk's advance changes to anything threatening. If it does, he will ready a Dodge action in case he is attacked.

It's rather unimportant at the moment, but I just wanted to mention: Dodge is an action, and Ready is an action, and both are things you would do only in combat (i.e. turn-based mode), which we're not currently in.

Also, Readying a Dodge wouldn't be as helpful as straight-up taking the Dodge action (which imposes disadvantages on all anyone who makes an attack roll against you for a full round, starting the moment you take this action). Especially when you a Ready an action, the poised reaction it gives you doesn't take place until after whatever triggers is (so if you're attacked, you wouldn't begin to Dodge until after the attack is made), like all readied actions.

Anyway, just trying to simplify the rules on actions in combat about these two specifically.

[Brian]

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

Condign will, for the moment, keep an eye on the umber hulk and wait to see what Kal wants to do.

[Jeff]

Sure. Outside turns and combat, just paying attention to potential enemies makes sure that if battle begins, you won't be denied action in a surprise round (if there was one).

[Darren]

Jeff, before I post, how realistic is it to rest at this point? We'd have to sit around in the tunnel there for 8 hours, right? But that would get everyone their spells back and conceivably some hit points?

[Jeff]

A short rest the group can absolutely take, provided nothing interrupts it and no one goes wandering off solo. That's just one hour. A short rest will get you back some resources (though not big ones like spell slots) and lets you spend any hit dice to get some hit points back. Note that Belarin, as Ken well knows, will get all his spell slots back—that's a warlock feature.

A long rest you'd have to wait a long time for, well beyond 8 hours, because you can only take one long rest in a 24 hour period. It was early in the morning when you came to the Lighthouse, and though a lot has happened it's all mostly happened in less than a couple of hours thus far. So to take an 8-hour long rest, you'd have to wait a good 12 hours first, and then begin in. If you think you have that kind of time and want to try it, sure thing.

[Ken]

Also, in a short rest, we CAN spend our Hit Dice (i.e. roll them) in order to regain hit points. (This likely excludes Adamant, unfortunately, because of the air creature's curse.) Streko will also regain his Channel Divinity -- not as good as spell slots, but still handy.

[Brian]

After a short rest, Condign would regain some hit points and all of his superiority die.

[Dave W.]

I believe those of us suffering Tomb Rot (Addy goes to raise his had but then realizes he's unconscious) can't spend HD to regain hp. Sorry guys, I'm still going to be a load slowing you down...

[Jeff]

This really troubled me, so I asked Adamant about it.
"Adamant, you said once I decided to fight with you,
You'd walk alongside me and impose disadvantage on attacks against me.
But I noticed that during the hardest and most troublesome battles of our adventures,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed you the most, you would desert me."

The warforged whispered, "My good friend, I fought for you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that you had to carry my incapacitated body of metal and stone,
Because I went down just to keep you alive up until that point,
FYI, you may want to get me revived before too long, for your own sake.
May Dol Arrah illuminate your path."

[Brian]

Jun 5, 2017 12:53:00 GMT -4 Jeff said:

This really troubled me, so I asked Adamant about it.
"Adamant, you said once I decided to fight with you,
You'd walk alongside me and impose disadvantage on attacks against me.
But I noticed that during the hardest and most troublesome battles of our adventures,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed you the most, you would desert me."

The warforged whispered, "My good friend, I fought for you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that you had to carry my incapacitated body of metal and stone,
Because I went down just to keep you alive up until that point,
FYI, you may want to get me revived before too long, for your own sake.
May Dol Arrah illuminate your path."

Cute.

[Dave W.]

Awesome!

[Brian]

Regarding the short rest: Condign can get his hit dice back in one hour or attune to the sword, but not both. Doing both would require a two hour rest. How does everyone feel about two hours instead of one? If it's a problem, I'm good with waiting on the attunement.

[Ken]

Hmmm. Two hours means it's more likely that we'll catch any guards unawares ... but it's also more likely that the Coin Lords will have moved Lhash-Tava. Granted, that ship may have sailed (literally and figuratively) but there's still a chance. I'd say let's see how the first hour goes and then let's discuss it briefly in character.

[Brian]

Sounds good.

[Darren]

My concern, besides what Ken said about them moving Llash-Tava, is that more time also gives the Coin Lords more time to bring in reinforcements (possibly). Even an hour isn't ideal, but I don't think we have a choice on that one.

[Jeff]

Jun 6, 2017 16:43:09 GMT -4 Darren said:

Good for a one hour rest. Jeff, remind me how the whole hit dice thing works? Kal can basically roll to heal as many dice as his hit dice total, right?

Right. And you guys, I'm pretty sure, have full hit dice available.

A character can spend one or more Hit Dice at the end of a short rest, up to the character’s maximum number of Hit Dice, which is equal to the character’s level. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s Constitution modifier to it. The character regains hit points equal  to the total. The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll.

You just just roll a die at a time, if you want, and then stop when you've expended enough. Just cite the result of your rolls and tell me how many hit dice you spent, and I'll process it.

You guys can go ahead and do your rolls—you won't get interrupted in one hour's time, but the umber hulk will return before it's up (basic interaction doesn't spoil the short rest) and possibly other developments you can consider before deciding whether you do more than this. You'll see.