Chapter 8: Q&A / Discussions

[Brian]

Jeff:

Brian, my memory is poor. We took the discussion of Condign's powers to IM, so I don't see your final decisions in the private thread. Can you post there and remind me, then I'll make the updates?

Will do. As soon as I get home and look it up in my book. ;D

[Mike]

Given our current situation, I'd recommend that we essentially stay clustered the way we are, kind of like a phalanx - and not moving too far into the room, or spreading apart.

Let them come to us. If we spread ourselves out too thin, it's easy to get flanked, and someone might get ganged up on by a bunch of vampires.

Also, if someone's got burst or area effect powers, now's the time to use them. Hopefully some are minions.

[Jeff]

And, to be clear, around this mastiff, bright light becomes dim light, dim light becomes utter darkness. Only with bright light being shed (such as from Syrdan's sword) can you even get that dim light. So...you'll want to at least keep that going.

[Darren]

We're definitely in agreement, Mike. And yes, Kal will try to make use of his burst powers.

[Ken]

I'll be posting shortly -- and Kal will have room to move in. He'll like it, especially since Belarin goes first, although I'll probably roll terribly. (Cue the reverse jinx.)

I spent a solid minute trying to figure out who "G" is on the map. Duh! Sorry, Grandpa Munster!

[Ken]

By the way, I'm a firm believer in the "Smoke 'em if you got 'em" approach toward using Action Points. Considering that the vampires have an advantage in terms of numbers and territory, I felt a reminder would be useful, since (as Jeff said) we haven't done combat in a while and Dave Bean is fairly new to 4E combat. Quickly taking out the Bad Dog (and its shadows) could be huge, for instance.

[Jeff]

Mar 7, 2011 22:57:42 GMT -4 Dave B. said:

Shorak signals to Kal to close the door as he draws his short sword and quickly moves to the closest drape to his left (west wall) and rips it down, slicing it with his sword if need be. His hope is to allow sunlight into the room and he will continue to work around clockwise, tearing down the drapes.

He will stay on full defense. The hope is to give the vamps less room to move in or maybe even fry one or two.

Dave, okay, so here's the difficulty of this:

Shorak would need to move adjacent to the wall, so he can use a move action to move 2 squares to the west, but then there's a couple of vampires in the way. He can't enter their spaces to reach the wall.

Also keep in mind that whenever you leave a square threatened by an enemy (pretty much any square adjacent to an enemy), you provoke an attack of opportunity.

It would be helpful if you could at least give me a contingency; that is, what Shorak will do if the path to the wall isn't cleared by the time he goes in this round.

[Darren]

Hey, Jeff, can you also tell me a bit about the consequences of Kal using fire-based powers on the ship? Is that something we need to be concerned about, or does 4E not really account for that kind of thing? I mean, if Kal sprays fire onto the vampires near the window, is it possible that those drapes covering the windows might also catch fire?

[Jeff]

Darren, no, not really. If Kal didn't target monsters but specifically expended such a spell directly on the cloth, then I'd consider making it subject to catch fire. But spells are fast. They don't generally pose a threat to the environment unless some special conditions were in place. If this room and furniture were doused in oil, then yeah, that could be problematic.

[Mike]

Mar 7, 2011 22:08:00 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Real quick: Apologies, Mike. I completely forgot about the shifting Overwhelming Strike allows. The mastiff is now where Syrdan was, and Syrdan is 1 square north of there. I've updated the map accordingly.

And I've amended my original post accordingly.

Mar 7, 2011 22:08:00 GMT -4 Jeff said:

I have no idea. Where is this +2 coming from? You didn't state what power Streko is using. Kinda need to know that.

In general, whenever anyone posts that they're using a power, can people post as much detail as they can (or at least the name of the power?) Besides being a big help to our DM, it's a help to other players as well.

I know I tend to look up the other powers that other people are using, mostly to see if there's something Syrdan can do to augment them, or help out. There's a lot of synergy in 4E between character powers, so anything we can do to better tap into that synergy is a big plus, IMO.

[Mike]

Mar 8, 2011 7:46:59 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Also keep in mind that whenever you leave a square threatened by an enemy (pretty much any square adjacent to an enemy), you provoke an opportunity attack.

Fixed your statement for you. We're not in the realms of 3.5 anymore. ;D

[Mike]

Mar 8, 2011 0:15:07 GMT -4 Dave W. said:

I know this is redundant but I feel better having multiple light sources just in case. Indulge me.

Oh, I completely agree with you, Dave. It's harder to put out multiple light sources - great idea.

[Jeff]

Thanks, Mike.

Darren: I need a contingency from you, too. What would Kal's action be if something prevented him from even entering the room.

[Dave B.]

If there are vampires in the way I will use my Tumble power to move through them to get to the drapes. I will modify my previous post in the game thread to reflect this.

But correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the vampires just start getting up? Since I go right after the Mastiff, wouldn't there be at least a round before the vamps are even up and able to act?

[Jeff]

Yes, Shorak will act before the vamps do. It's currently just the mastiff in his way.

Unfortunately, 4E doesn't have a Tumble skill. Even Acrobatics, which is a skill, doesn't have that.

[Jeff]

Still a little confused about what each type of action allows, but I'll get it eventually.

Yup, I know. It takes a little getting used to. It's just different enough from 3.5 to be confusing, but not so different that you start from scratch.

Every round you have three types of actions:

Minor - Quick things like opening a door or drawing a weapon.

Move - Moving your full speed or shifting 1 square (shifting is 4E's version of the 5-foot step and doesn't provoke opportunity attacks)

Standard - Doing most attacks; this can also be given up to get a second move action.

[Darren]

It's really hard to say, Jeff. If this were a table game, I would base my strategy on what the board looked like when it was my turn to go. With so many pieces in play and without having any idea what the situation will be, I can't really figure out what the best move would be. Does that make sense? Here's the basic story....

Kal's number one goal is to get into the room behind everyone else and get the door closed.

His number two goal is to hit as many vampires as possible, preferably using fire.

Does that help? If he can't achieve goal number one, he would try to achieve goal number two independently of goal number one. If someone were to come down the stairs and up the hallway behind him and goal number one could not be achieved, that would change everything. But if this were a table game, I'd have the chance to respond to that accordingly and decide which the larger threat was. So I can't really give you a contingency for that because I don't really know anything about it, yet.

[Darren]

Sorry, Jeff. I hadn't read the main thread when I posted that. I'll post something now.

[Jeff]

Yup, I know that, Darren. We've had this discussion before. Play-by-post doesn't benefit from the turn-based changing-of-mind that you get with tabletop. Which is why, in this particular instance, I posted mid-round to give you all a glimpse of NPC positioning halfway through the round.

I'll generally give you guys the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these things, by redirecting attacks in favorable ways and such. I just need something to guide by, though.

I think what you said is enough, then.

[Darren]

Wait, wait wait! I'm posting something awesome right now!

[Jeff]

Okay...

Do you guys remember (can't remember which discussion thread this was in), at one point I did say we could experiment with a new combat format. It would probably be slower, because it would dependent on ordered posting, but it would solve most of the map changes.

Basically, I could post the combat actions as they happen. The downside is, you'd all have to hold off posting until the next person in the initiative order posted their actions, etc.

[Darren]

I think that, in 99% of circumstances, what we have been doing has worked fine. I think this particular combat situation just called for a bit of a slowdown, and I like the way you did this. Stopping halfway through the round in an instance like this so that people can modify their actions is appreciated. Most of the time it's not necessary. My vote is for continuing as we have been and using common sense for when a situation like this one arises.

[Brian]

Until the complexity of this battle settles down, I'd suggest Joe and Ken post. Then Jeff posts the mastiff attack. Then Dave B. Then Jeff posts the vamp attacks. After that, the rest of us can go ahead and post. Otherwise, we will be going back and revising posts ad infinitum.

Anyone else have a better idea?

(Jeff knows how much a dislike revisiing. )

[Mike]

Not a problem - it makes total sense, I'm fine with the change in combat format.

I just didn't know we were kicking in the new format with this particular combat, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered writing my original post for Syrdan's turn. (BTW, I've deleted that original post, and reposted it - heavily modified - later in the game thread, as it made zero sense where it originally was.)

The teleport just really threw things off for Syrdan - he was using a Daily Power, and with the mastiff moving, I didn't want to redirect Syrdan's existing actions against something else.

[Brian]

Darren, an action point allows you to do one thing, not a whole round of things. I suspect our fearless leader is going to insist that you pick one.

[Mike]

What Brian said ... an action point lets a character take an additional minor action, movement action, or standard action. Not a whole round's worth of actions.

[Darren]

Oh. Hm. Damn. I'll consider my post and revise later, then.

It's a shame, too. Kal's actions were pretty awesome.

[Ken]

Regarding combat format, I agree with what the other guys have said. So far, it's worked fine 99% of the time. This is a weird circumstance, so if there are going to be more tactic-altering moves from the mastiff, we should keep the before/after split for this combat. Otherwise, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My suggestion: Jeff, if you know that the combat will involve a potentially tricky creature like the mastiff, roll its initiative prior to combat, then say to us, "Roll for initiative. If you roll higher than 14 (for example), post combat actions as normal. If not, please wait until I get the next post up before describing your actions. You'll see why it matters."

[Jeff]

Mar 8, 2011 11:27:37 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Unfortunately, 4E doesn't have a Tumble skill. Even Acrobatics, which is a skill, doesn't have that.

D'oh. I'm an idiot. Sorry, Dave. Yes, there's no Tumble skill in 4E, but there is a Tumble power, and Shorak has it. Sorry, I'll account for that now!

[Jeff]

Man, I am constantly forgetting whether the benefits conferred by some of Condign's powers affect him or not. The wording is "allies." but some powers specify "you and your allies," don't they?

For example:

Allies within 5 squares of you gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your Charisma modifier.

In that instance, Condign doesn't gain those temporary hit points, does he?