Chapter 6: Q&A / Discussion

[Dave W.]

Mar 23, 2010 18:23:05 GMT -4 Brian said:

He leans in and whispers into Belarin's ear: "Maybe you need a secret word or phrase to open them? Try 'Speak friend and enter.'"

Unfortunately I had just taken a fairly big sip of water when I got to this line... now I have to clean my screen...

[Jeff]

Is it necessary in an instance like this to ask for a Perception check, or is that just a given?

The difference in asking or not asking is this:

Kal's passive Perception, in effect at all times = 14

Perception check, when requested = somewhere between 5 and 24

So it can't hurt.

[Darren]

Thanks. I've modified my post to ask for it, then.

[Dave W.]

Oh, then I'll be making a perception check too and modify my post. Woot!

[Ken]

I wrote my earlier post based on an incorrect image of where the holes were (images are blocked on my work PC). Now that I've verified it on my smartphone, I've amended Belarin's post.

I also made a Perception check, because I want to be a member of the In Crowd.

[Darren]

Hey, Jeff. A question regarding pushing (specifically in relation to Thunder Slam)....

If Kal were to use Thunder Slam on the spider just to the south of Varna, and it hit and pushed him back three squares, given that there is a second spider behind him and then a wall behind that, what would happen? Would there be any damage from it, or would the spider simply not move because there's nowhere for it to go?

[Jeff]

I'll get back to you in a bit about that, Darren. I don't want to guess without the rules at hand.

But in general, for everyone, it's probably a good idea to include one contingency in your posts. In other words, if the enemy moves before your initiative count and therefore spoils your first plan, give me a backup. If you include a roll, and we're forced to move to your contingency, I'll just use the same roll result. No need to give two rolls. Complicates things, anyway.

Make sense?

Darren, think you can handle doing a roll? Even just a single d20 would be good.

[Darren]

Yes I can, but I don't want to post an action until I have an idea about what I want to do based on how that power works.

[Jeff]

I know. Just saying that as an aside. I'll get you an answer when I get home.

[Jeff]

Okay. The official rule is you can't push, pull, or slide an opponent into any space it couldn't move to on its own. So generally speaking, you can't use Thunder Slam to, say, hurl one creature into another.That said, I consider all circumstances, and I can rule that there may be exceptions to this.

So I can't tell you what the outcome would be. Just know that at worst, the spider gets hurt but doesn't get pushed. Then again, at best, it might.

Just use Thunder Slam in consideration with the rules as written.

[Dave W.]

On push, pull, and slide it's important to note that you can always move the enemy fewer squares. So if you push 3, but there's a wall 2 sq ahead, you can still move them that many.

I wish I could get to the boards from work... Sorry for any delays but I will post something soon.

[Jeff]

No hurry, guys. I probably won't post again until tomorrow morning, to allow everyone a chance.

[Ken]

Mar 27, 2010 18:03:28 GMT -4 Jeff said:

• Belarin uses a move action to stand up from prone and places a Warlock's Curse on spider #2.
• Spider #2's opportunity attack vs. Belarin: 20 (miss) (Sly Dodge feat totally saved you here!)

Yep, now a multiclass rogue, baby! Parents, hide your daughters! ;D

But seriously... YEESH. Yes, that could have been bad. Too bad I don't yet have access to the Power-Swap feats to get a rogue melee attack power.

[Darren]

Jeff, a question regarding attacks of opportunity, and I may have actually asked this before, but I don't remember the answer....

Since Kal's sharrash has reach, if an enemy moves past him, not adjacent but within reach of the sharrash, do they provoke an attack of opportunity from him?

In other words, both spider #2 and #3 are within range of where Kal has moved to, now. If either one of them were to move, would Kal get an AoO against them?

[Jeff]

Alas, no:

Reach: With a reach weapon, you can attack enemies that are 2 squares away from you as well as adjacent enemies, with no attack penalty. You can still make opportunity attacks only against adjacent enemies. Likewise, you can flank only an adjacent enemy.

Also bear in mind, the moment Kal takes out Skyfang to use as an implement, he can't utilize his sharash for opportunity attacks, either, since he needs to be holding it two-handed to use it. Though he could make opportunity attacks with Skyfang.

Also, the only reason the spiders did not provoke opportunity attacks getting to where they're at is that they have a power that lets them shift a number of spaces while attacking (in effect, jumping and attacking as jumping spiders do); shifting is normally only a single square of movement and never provokes. Most other creatures can't do that.

[Dave W.]

The warforged knows that his challenge doesn't require intelligence on the part of his enemy; he believes it is a warning from Dol Arrah herself.

I know, talking isn't necessay at all for him to mark. But sometimes Adamant gets a little chatty in combat. He doesn't need to worry about saving his breath!  

[Ken]

Darren, I understand the confusion. It's one of the changes from v3.5 to 4E. Things with Reach in v3.5 could make Attacks of Opportunity against targets 2 squares (10 feet) away - one of many reasons that trolls suck. :-) But not in 4E.

And as Jeff says, the ability of some creatures and player classes (especially with some rogue and ranger powers) to shift multiple squares isn't common, and it's awesome tactically.

I'm still not sure how I feel about characters getting up from prone NOT provoking Opportunity attacks in 4E, but that's another topic. I do like it when I'm the one who has to stand up, though. ;-)

[Jeff]

Mike:

Standard action: Overwhelming Strike on the shifter zombie; if I'm successful, I get to shift him around, so I want to switch places with him, putting myself directly in the middle of both zombies.

Not sure that will quite work, Mike. There's a sequence to this, as described in the power:

You shift 1 square and slide the target 1 square into the space you occupied.

So first you have to shift 1 square (into a space not already occupied), then the zombie slides into the square you were in. So while you can force him into your space, you can't take the space he was in as part of the same action. If Syrdan wasn't using up his move action (the Acrobatics check), then he could normally just shift 1 square when all is done and then take the space the zombie occupied.

Do you follow what I mean? So Syrdan can still slide the zombie to where he was, but he can't pick the square the zombie's currently in for himself.

[Brian]

Ken, weren't you able to make a saving throw vs the spider's poison during your turn?

[Dave W.]

Mar 29, 2010 4:54:16 GMT -4 Brian said:

Ken, weren't you able to make a saving throw vs the spider's poison during your turn?

He did, he just failed it.

[Brian]

Oh, sorry. I must have missed the roll.

[Ken]

Nope, I missed the roll at the end of Round 1 to avoid taking damage in Round 2, but now I should make one at the end of my turn in Round 2 to avoid taking more damage in Round 3. Thanks for the reminder. (Unfortunately, Streko goes after me in the initiative, so his bonus won't count until my Round 3 save.)

[Mike]

Do you follow what I mean? So Syrdan can still slide the zombie to where he was, but he can't pick the square the zombie's currently in for himself.

That makes sense.

My original thought was to keep the other zombie blocked in the doorway while putting the shifter zombie in a better spot for other characters to take shots at it. But as you said, the power doesn't quite work like that. So I'll continue to clog the doorway until the spiders get squashed.

I'm going to amend my attack to bond of pursuit, then. I'll adjust my post accordingly.

[Jeff]

Actually, Mike, if Syrdan moves up one or down one the open doors will still provide some cover from the second zombie. If he stays still, the second zombie can move through her fellow zombie's space, though that may provoke.

Up to you!

[Mike]

Syrdan doesn't particularly care about cover. In fact, he'd love it if the second zombie provoked an opportunity attack. ;D

I'll keep my actions as they currently are.

[Dave W.]

Mar 29, 2010 8:33:13 GMT -4 Ken said:

(Unfortunately, Streko goes after me in the initiative, so his bonus won't count until my Round 3 save.)

Adamant's going to give you a save (with a +4 bonus) on his turn and that's before yours. Assuming it all goes according to plan...

[Mike]

Mar 29, 2010 10:35:29 GMT -4 Dave W. said:

Assuming it all goes according to plan...

I love plans. Even if they rarely survive contact with the enemy.

[Dave W.]

Mar 29, 2010 10:41:17 GMT -4 Mike said:

I love plans. Even if they rarely survive contact with the enemy.

And sauted with a little olive oil... yum!

[Darren]

Hey, Jeff, I'm confused about a bunch of things that happened in the last round.

First, Spider #2 was immobilized by Belarin in the previous round. So how did it attack Kal? Does it have reach?

Second, we determined early in the fight that if hit, Kal was going to use Dragonflame Mantle.

Third, does Kal have use of the Dragon Magic powers? The reason I ask is because of this: "Dragon Magic: The next enemy that hits you with a melee attack before the end of your next turn takes fire damage equal to your Strength modifier." That's in the description for Burning Spray, and since Kal and the spiders have the same initiative number, I was wondering if our actions are happening more or less simultaneously and therefore if that would apply to the spider's attack on Kal?

[Mike]

Mar 30, 2010 10:33:11 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Cool use of an action point, Mike. But I'm not sure where you're getting the sliding action from. Avenging echo doesn't involve forced movement; plus it was a miss.

Gah. That's because I meant Overwhelming Strike, not Avenging Echo. Got the two mixed up.

Doesn't matter. I missed anyway. And hopefully I get some radiant damage going as well.

Curse 4E and its self-important power names ...