PLEASE READ: DE Peril!

[Jeff]

Okay, guys. This game is in trouble. Behind the scenes and in everyday contribution, there are problems. There has been:

(1) Very infrequent posts from some. Sometimes a couple days are skipped, but now it's more than that. It used to be one or two people. Now it's half the group.

(2) Complaints about the behavior of other players/characters.

(3) Complaints about the pace of the game. This is a consequence of points (1) and (2). You see that, right?

Both points of (2) and (3) are partly because the party has never wanted a leader (and many are resentful if anyone tries to lead), and this results in less focus for the group, less direction, and less moving on. So yes, that means there's a lot of disagreement about which door to try next, where to go, etc. I could solve this by making this a very linear game. There'd be only one door at a time, only one direction to go. But this would not be fun for me and, I suspect, ultimately would not be fun for you.

Regarding point (1). If I have to chase you down to see if you're going to be posting again, then clearly you're not having any fun. And that's the biggest thing.

So I'm giving those of you who think of coming here and posting as a chore an opportunity. This is your big break. Seize it if you want, please. I wanted this game to be a fun distraction, not a chore. I release you of obligation. But if you choose to stay, then please help me out. As DM I get to control a lot of things, but I absolutely cannot force you to get along or come here and post. If you don't like the story of this game, that's fine. You don't have to stick around. If the story is fun, but the pacing is slowing it down either because people aren't showing up or, when they do, aren't getting along, then please help the group get along. Be a little less standoffish. Be a little more cooperative. I'm not talking to just one or two of you. I really do mean everyone.

But at the current momentum, this game is starting to be not worth the time. If you have trouble motivating yourself to come here or post, then let's address it NOW.

A recent article on the WotC site about DMing opened up with this very apt paragraph of advice:

When you're the Dungeon Master, you're going to wear a lot of hats. You're going to be the creator of a world, the architect of numerous dungeons, and the strategic mastermind behind countless encounters. Those are the fun hats. Those are the creative hats. Those are game hats. Less fun, less creative, and seemingly having nothing to do with the game, you are also going to be thrust into the roll of manager for a group of people who come to your house to play each week. For better or worse, the DM also tends to be the leader of the group -- a leader who often hosts the games, organizes the schedule, and has to act is arbitrator for every problem that comes up.

It's not fair, I tell you. But there are ways that you can get your fellow players to shoulder most, if not all, of the burden, by letting them manage themselves.

I accept that. It's the crap that comes with the fun of being DM. So right now, I'm not interested in treating symptoms. I want to deal with the disease itself.

And I'm open to suggestions. If you think there is something that I, as DM, can do to help this, please say so. I'm willing to experiment. But please bear in mind what I can't do. I can only influence what goes on here. I can't force people to even show up; I hate feeling like a jerk every time I've tried.

Some of you have probably been oblivious to these problems, because you're having fun and you're actually showing up pretty regularly. I'm sorry for this sudden alarm.

[Jeff]

I just want to add:

I've been doing the DMing thing for years, and some groups I've been involved with work out better than others. That's just the nature of it. This is, however, the first time I've run a play-by-post game. It's a different beast. On the plus side, I get to game with you guys...every single one of you lives far away from me (some more than others), and there's no other way I'd ever be able to game with such a mix of people otherwise. It's an honor to do so. That's why I'm fighting to make this work. It's fun for me. But it's NOT fun when I hear that it's not fun for you. So I want to make it enjoyable for you.

Tell me precisely what would make it enjoyable for you. You have more power over this than you may realize.

[Ken]

I'm enjoying myself, but I can see why the game is hitting a rut. Here's my take as someone has played in a lot of online games and has seen far too many peter out after several fun months:

Investigating a creepy house/dungeon/mountain takes time and requires decisions. In person, these decisions can generally be made pretty quickly. Online, it quickly becomes a give-and-take-and-wait, with some folks having strong opinions (either in-character or OOC) and other folks not saying anything because either they don't really care what the group decides or they don't want to be seen as stepping on toes. Fair enough? The end result is that a couple of people post often, while the others hang back and wait for somebody -- ANYBODY -- to make a decision or for a skirmish to break out and allow the group to get back into action.

So specifically for this gang, what do we have? Our first lengthy exploration of anything big, at least in the months since I joined. The pace has thus slowed up a LOT since the ooze/devil fly fight. There are a lot of doors and passageways to explore! And there are a bunch of us, so once Players #1 and #2 says, "Let's go this way," it doesn't allow much in the way of creative role-playing for Players #3 through #6. Their choices are either to accept the temporary necessary evil of saying, "Me too" or "Present," or to say, "I love role-playing, so I'll do something different." That's great, but it further slows things down and leads to in-character chaos and strife. (I'm not directing this at any one person. I know I've likely been guilty of it, too.)

How do we pick up the pace? Well, that's where a party leader typically comes in, as Jeff mentioned. Kal has assumed this role, almost by default because, well, dammit, somebody had to. And Darren is doing a great job of roleplaying a character with a fiery temper, an imperious nature, a strong sense of loyalty, and some deep-buried insecurities. (I think Kal is Irish. So what happens when a person like that is thrust into a tense leadership situation with others from different backgrounds and with different motives? At times, he's going to get angry and he will anger them in return. That's the way Darren has played Kal, and I commend you on that, Darren.

The bad side is that, from the players' perspective, we don't get very far. For instance, Kal got angry when examining the ingredients, Torhak asked a question, and Kal bit his head off for the perceived threat to his leadership and essentially said to the dwarf, "You wanna go outside?" Mike, playing a proud, intelligent dwarf, had Torhak bite his tongue rather than get into a pointless fight with an ally in the middle of the enemy stronghold and he is choosing to put some space between him and Kal. Meanwhile the other players don't want to get involved with this, and they don't post, waiting for the DM's next post instead.

Resolution? We need to metagame for a moment and make some blanket OOC decisions. The group definitely needs a leader for these periods of the game, someone who can do the Jean-Luc Picard consensus of the characters' opinions and say -- firmly yet respectfully -- "I appreciate your concerns and they're duly noted, but we'll go this way." And at the point, the other characters -- and players -- have to go along with that decision, because he's the leader. If the leader screws up repeatedly during the exploration, then we can discuss that in character and out after the current situation has been resolved. Otherwise, nothing gets done.

I have no problem if Kal wants to be the leader during this current time, and I'll make sure that Belarin follows along, even though the "Lord Hornet" tease will still pop up. And if that's the case, I'd ask everyone else to follow suit for the sake of pacing. Our characters can do the Monday morning quarterbacking later to hash out differences.

What I would then ask of you, Darren, is not to change Kal but to have him recognize that, in the words of Stan Lee, "with great power comes great responsibility." Have him recognize that he is in a difficult situation, one that requires him to master his own flaws and become a better leader for it.

And if Kal is not to be the leader, then someone else should step up or nominate someone to take that role.

Jeff: What I think you can do is, when you see things slowing up because of indecision ("Do I open this door?"), contact one of us privately and give that person some piece of info that suggests that the room is relatively "safe." Yes, it removes a little bit of roleplaying and tension, but it does keep things moving and prevents us from spending two days over whether to open the door to a closet.

Thanks for your time. I really hope we can keep this going for a long time to come, because I enjoy playing with all of you.

[Marcy]

Well, Ken said everything I was thinking. I'm having fun, but then I have a character whose skills are actually useful in exploring a big building with lots of doors that might be trapped or locked. I can see where it might be less fun for characters who don't have as much to do right now. But that's the nature of the game -- different skills are needed at different times and not everyone is always going to have something concrete to do, especially in a big party. And that happens in face-to-face games, too, it's just you can usually go get a Mountain Dew and a brownie and by the time you get back, you have something to do again. In a PBP game, it can take days, especially if people don't post (and, in a vicious spiral, people are less likely to post when they have nothing to do, which drags the whole process out even longer).

The only cure to that I can see is having fewer characters, which means splitting the party up, which would be a huge headache for Jeff. I don't see that as a really viable option, but that'd be Jeff's call, since he's the one who'd have to do twice the work to keep everybody busy.

In lieu of that, I think people just have to be patient, post in a timely manner, and wait til we get to the next encounter. Or, you know, go barging through doors with no back-up in search of that encounter. Heh. ;D

[Darren]

I think Ken has put it very nicely. I agree that there should be more meta-game discussion, which I do think has been lacking. We should all also try to realize the distinction between things our characters say and do, and things that we personally mean. Please understand that anything Kal does or says is not a direct reflection of me. I'm just trying to play a character, so I apologize if that has made things less fun for other people.

I appreciate what you're saying, Ken, about being sensitive to assuming a leadership role, and I have tried to do that. What sometimes causes issues, and again, this is just from my perspective, is that I'm not sure everyone has accepted Kal in that leadership role, which means that when I, as Kal, try to steer the group in a particular direction in order to keep things moving, not everyone goes in that direction, and so I assume that Kal is NOT, in fact, the leader of the group and so I step back for a bit to see if someone else is planning to step up, but that never really happens.

Again, please, everyone, don't get offended by anything I'm saying. It's just my observations of things. The other problem with playing a game like this online is that all of our posts lack physical context, so sometimes exact meaning and intention is lost.

[Jeff]

I appreciate, and concur, with Ken's, Darren's, and Marcy's thoughts so far.

I need to hear from the rest of you. Point (1) above is still killing this game. Not coming in very often, and then having to play catch-up...it's not working.

Right now I'm setting it up that I will not make a DM post until I've heard from each player. If you disappear for 5 days, the game stops for 5 days. And if all you're doing is posting one sentence to get "credit," ask yourself if you want to be here. Please, I need some of you to think hard on this.

[mike]

Please understand that anything Kal does or says is not a direct reflection of me. I'm just trying to play a character, so I apologize if that has made things less fun for other people.

Here's the thing, though.

Strictly as an example: You're playing in character. Kal gets in Torhak's face and starts screaming at him. Now, if *I* want to play in character ... well, Torhak is a chaotic dwarven barbarian who hates sorcery and loves to beat people up. Strictly going by the "But I'm Only Playing In Character!" philosophy, Torhak should've taken a swing at Kal and then beaten him senseless in a full-on barbarian rage. (Or tried to do so, anyway.)

But doing so (1) wastes everyone else's time as they watch a pointless fight and (2) serves no real purpose. Which is aggravating.

So Torhak doesn't take the swing. He walks away, so Mike can help keep the game going and not disrupt it. But it means Mike has to not play his character the way that he wants. Which is aggravating.

I'm sure we've all done things like this at some point, and I'm sure I've done it. I also don't think it's anything intentional on anyone's part.

But I think it's something important to keep in mind going forward.

[Joe]

Oh, Mike...LOL!!! Don't get Streko started. He wasn't the quiet, puppy-dog, taciturn halfling you see before you now. Once, less than a week ago in game time, he was a loud, brash, opinionated, verbose halfling. Streko and Kal have had their run-ins over decisions, as have Streko and Goran, Streko and Grafth. Streko has caused a rucous on a few occassions and has, in fact, left the scene to calm down and gather his wits after a particularly brutal d'Deneith verbal assault. Streko has been ignored, abused and discarded like the sometimes petulant little halfling he is...and deservedly so. Streko has learned and he has made a choice. Kal made a promise to him and, as far as a Streko is concerned, Kal IS the leader, which is not to say that Streko won't be another party-member's wingman from time to time, especially if he can feel useful. Streko has an agenda, that much is certain, but he has learned...and so has the loud, brash, opinionated, verbose bonehead playing him.

At this point in time, there is little for Streko to do but ruminate on what he might be able to accomplish with the black cloud on the second floor, something Belarin agreed with him on as a possiblility. I am totally happy here, as usual, but am only able to post at nights, due to work restrictions (which is odd, seeing that I CAN get onto Facebook and play tiny adventures all bloody day long...huh...).

Frankly, I think we are ALL doing a great job at playing our characters. I also think we all have to recognize that this is a game that is going to take a seriously long time (has it been a year since it started? more?). I've met some great people here and look forward to keeping all of you guys as "online" pals for a very long time.

Now can I take a breath?

[Jeremy]

Greetings all.

I've read all these posts and everything sounds absolutely reasonable, plausible, etc. I have to admit that I'm not really seeing so much of a problem here. I think the game will wax and wane both according to real-life schedules and in-game dynamics. As 'Charis' points out, some of us will have skills that are more in use in this setting, and others are better in other settings. I shouldn't say "better", I should say more apt to those, more skilled-in, as it were.

I'm sure I'm one of those not posting enough, but I'm afraid this is what I've got to offer. I'm having a good time and it's not a chore for me, but sometimes there will be days that I don't post...and there will be segments of the game where I am content to watch what's going on and make small suggestions or contributions, and others where I want to really dive in. That's the nature of all this. If this isn't enough for this game, I will pack up up my bow and mysterious past and walk away, no hard feelings at all.

It is difficult to keep up sometimes when there are flurries of activity where even if I'm on every day I've already missed the critical decision-making time! I know this can't be helped, but it explains why sometimes some of us have less to contribute. That's unavoidable.

I have no difficulty accepting Kal as the leader. But my character will not always react positively to his choices...that's the nature of RP, isn't it? The nature of irrational beings in high-stress situations!

So, I'm gaming within the style and schedule available to me. I harbor no ill feelings if others don't think it's enough. I will step away. Otherwise, game on.

[Josh]

Darren, what Mike said about having to not play in character is something that I've had to also deal with for a long time in this game. Even out-of-character, it's impossible to not be annoyed by Kal's attitude, because no one would ever want to be led by someone like that, in game our out. To me that's a sign that you've perhaps played the character TOO well... That's a behavior that has always led to bickering and stalling in this game... because everyone else has to essentially break character in order to move forward.

Anyhow, thinking about that, I've realized that the only thing that I've liked about the game is the one thing most everyone has not enjoyed, so I should stop playing. I'm just waiting for the part of the game I'd be interested in 80% of the time, and when we get there everyone else wants to move on or fight something. I've been struggling to have fun, and it's catching up to me, obviously, as I've been finding it very hard to have a reason to post.

Frankly, I've been having this same problem on MY website, which I've been running for six years now. I have a 10:1 ratio of my posts to the "contributors"... people who told me they want to post and who I know have skill and talent. I know what Jeff's feeling, because I feel it every day. I can't get people I know or talk to on a regular basis to even support my label by picking up a $9 album. Heck, you guys even KNOW two of the artists but can't be bothered even to checked out their music!

So yeah, I've got a lot of daily worry on my plate, which is not making me want to come here and not have fun. Jeff's right, I should not fight that, it doesn't do anyone any good.

[Ken]

Sept 20, 2008 8:30:35 GMT -4 Josh said:

Anyhow, thinking about that, I've realized that the only thing that I've liked about the game is the one thing most everyone has not enjoyed, so I should stop playing.

Josh, if you've got other real-life issues on your plate, then absolutely, go take care of them. But by the "only thing" you like that no one else does, what are you referring to? Role-playing? Dialogue? If anything, it sounds like we might have too much role-playing! If you mean lengthy in-character discussions, those are great -- fabulous opportunities for role-playing and banter. Yet this is D&D, so there's going to be a mix: investigation, conflict, and hell, yeah, plenty of conversations. And I love all those aspects, as I think most of us here do. And there's a time and a place for each in the course of an story, whether in D&D or other types of fiction. Please don't leave the game over a perceived lack of in-character conversation -- we're having those right now in the course of the game, and the "quieter" moments will come again ... as soon as we've mopped the floor with the blood of our foes. Ahem.

[Jeff]

Plus I've been known to throw in excessive talkyness even in the midst of dungeoncrawling.

[Jeff]

Well, as I'm not a big fan of real-world stuff influencing in-game stuff, if Grafth is leaving then it must have been merely decided that he is not quitting the party for the same reasons Josh is quitting DE. I'll provide a temporary solution.

But before I post again and resurrect the game, I need to know that this is still worth it from the rest of you. If (and only if) you will not get lazy and check in only once every few days, or let the other players carry the game forward, then please say so now. This needs to be a proactive game, and players are just as needed to move the game forward. No just sliding by as everyone else handles things and you just post every now and again. It's just not just about a DM's post that advances things. I have nothing to advance unless players (all of them) are acting more or less in concert.

If you're not going to stick with it, please say it now.

[Jeremy]

Greetings.

I am reading this and it seems that probably, by this definition, I should no longer be a part of DE. I'm not missing days out of laziness, but there will be times when I might miss some action, I didn't know that was going to be such a problem. The problem that is being described fits me, apparently, perfectly. Therefore Goran will tender his resignation effective immediately.

I didn't realize when I started that this game was going to be an urgent, every day thing as is now (and has been before) being described. I thought there was some flex-ground between genuinely wanting to be a part of it (my position) and having to be there every day no matter what, and having to contribute on an equal footing to every party decision, whether you had something worthy to add or not. That's not really how I play, anyway. If I don't have something important to contribute, I won't say much at all, just enough to let everyone else know I'm still there.

The thing is, it's been said that this "shouldn't be a chore", but when I am compelled to do it every day no matter what my plans, work, or state of mind, etc., or whether I really want to that day, and if I don't I will be letting someone else down well, it is going to feel like a chore sometimes.

It was fun, and I'd like to thank Jeff for putting so much work into creating this lively, profound adventure, and for inviting me to be a part of it.

Thanks everyone, good luck with the interior of those buildings. Feel free to use Goran as an NPC.

P.S. Well Kal, guess this makes you the last of the "Originals".

[Jeff]

At no point in time have I ever required it to be an urgent thing, but I did ask from the beginning that it be a daily thing. I did. That doesn't make it urgent. And those who joined at the time agreed.

Jeremy, before you go (and please do so only if you must), I want to put forth a paragraph from my original "seeking interest" email before the game even began (this was from January of 2007). I'm bolding some parts now for emphasis.

It would involve a committment. A small one, anyway. For them to work, play-by-post games need regular activity from all parties involved. But what defines "regular" has yet to be defined. So I would need your involvement to be steady, but I don't see this being a fast-paced thing. At most, you could probably check in on it once per day. If you need to disappear for a few days, we can manage it. I'm sure I will need to disappear for a few. The game goes at the pace of all its participants. If, down the line, you need to drop out of the game, that's okay. We can deal with it then. But I'd at least know you'd be in it for a fair chunk of time.

That's all still completely true. Yes, at times some zealous posters (myself included) have sped things up, but I've never required anyone to keep pace with that...multiple posts in a day is not required, and in fact we should refrain from going that fast.

The problem is, the "if you need to disappear for a few days" got worse and worse among several players. And when this happens, by the point it's at now, that tells me quite firmly: Jeff, we're not having any fun here. So I HAVE to make threads like this one, trying to figure out if the game can be salvaged.

Am I not making any sense to you guys?

[Jeremy]

Did not mean to insinuate that anyone was being particularly unfair or 'changing the rules', etc. I was, however, pointing that I must have misunderstood the commitment in the first place. And of course life changes...two years ago (gods, has it been that long?) I may indeed have been more available. Things have changed in my life, no doubt.

I think it's the speed -or pace, if your prefer- of the game that is in conflict with some of us, not the value we give it. There is a difference in that, a crucial one. Some of us truly enjoy the game but don't give it thought seven days a week. I know I never gave any of my dinner table RP games a thought seven days a week. Hell, I'm not even at my home seven days a week!

The thing is, there will be days from time to time that I will miss, and I won't always know in advance to alert everyone. For the record yes, you are being clear. To me at least. I cannot, of course, answer for the others. ;D

Over and out.

[Darren]

I'm getting the impression that my style of play is what's causing a lot of the problems here. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not, please tell me what I can do to fix it. I'd hate to think that I'm the cause of people leaving this game or of lessening their enjoyment of it.

[Joe]

Darren, such is the plight of a strong-willed, aggressive character. Streko has dealt well with Kal and both of our characters have put each other in their respective places from time to time (at least let Streko believe he has done so...). I think you are an awesome player...it has definitely brought some real world character to the game, for good and bad. I think each of our characters needs to understand their place in the order of the game and we, as the players, must guide that and remember that is isn't we who are in the game...if that makes sense.

[mike]

All I can suggest is what I usually tell my players in my own campaigns, when I'm the DM (or GM). I wrote this a while ago for my players, so here it is, copied 'n' pasted:

Play your character however you want. I'm not going to tell you a right way or wrong way to play; that's up to you.

However, how you play your character can impact everyone else's enjoyment of the game. Your words and actions have consequences, intended or not. Just because you don't intend to irritate/offend/annoy a player (or their character) doesn't mean they shouldn't be offended.

Keep this in mind when you play your character. If you think you might offend somebody with what your character says or does, try to think if there's a better way of accomplishing what you want.

Every player is bound to annoy or offend every other character (and player) in the group at some point during the game. It's natural. But if your character is repeatedly doing so, over and over again ... you might want to rethink how you're playing your character, and try a different approach to what he/she says or does during the game.

[Jeff]

Thanks for sharing that, Mike. I definitley like that angle. I want people to be able to play their characters as they want to. But if there's too much internal conflict, something's got to be steered a bit. The point of the game is that of a team opposing all the bad guys, not each other.

[Darren]

Okay, I hear what you're saying, and I agree, but can you maybe help me figure out exactly what it is that Kal is doing that annoys people so often? I mean, certain things are obvious (getting in Torhak's face about destroying stuff) and I get that, but it seems to happen at odd times that I don't understand. For instance, Kal will try to come up with a plan for what to do, and so he'll suggest what everyone should do, and people seem to get worked up. So, is that what's causing a problem?

[mike]

There have been times where the 'suggestion' doesn't come across as one. Rather, it's an order ... and it's done in such a way that it boxes the other player into doing something they might not want to do, or they have to start an argument so as not to do it.

Here's an example.

Torhak's in a room, and finds a magic trap protecting a box. Belarin's also in the room, and has just gotten a description of an interesting painting. Although Torhak (Mike) doesn't know it yet, Belarin (Ken) would really like to take a peek behind the painting.

But before Ken gets a chance to state these intentions, Mike posts the following.

"I've found a magic trap," Torhak says. "Belarin, come here and disarm it. Now."

After Belarin disarms the trap, Torhak opens the box and looks inside.

With this post, I've not only just told Ken what to do (which means he can't do what he originally wanted), but because I've already posted what I want to do next based on Ken's action, I'm in effect *forcing* him to do it. Yes, Ken can say "Belarin looks behind the painting and ignores Torhak", but that opens up the possibility for argument (which seems to happen often in this game.)

I would argue that the following is a better way of accomplishing the same thing:

"I've found a magic trap," Torhak says. "Belarin, do you think you could disarm it?"

In game, this gives Ken the option to say yes or no, and to avoid a conflict if he says no.

[Darren]

Understood, Mike. Thanks.

[Jeff]

This post is just to represent a big gap between the post following this one and all the stuff above. They're kind of separate, but belong in the same thread.

[Jeff]

All right, guys, listen up. Time to talk about the state of DE again. Don't take this the wrong way. I think everyone's participation has been pretty decent recently. For the most part. This isn't about that old issue.

Unfortunately, Josh has decided not to rejoin the game; mostly because it's lost the fun for him, a notion I certainly can't refute. It's a different experience for each person. What's fun for one isn't necessary fun for another.

Now, this poses a couple of immediate complexities (which I can always work around, if I have to), but it’s a contributing element to my overall need to question where this game is at.

More or less, it’s been fun so far, usually depending on the rate of participation there’s been among all of you. But all in all, a blast. Plus it’s been a good gaming outlet for me. My 5- or 6-year tabletop D&D game (Forgotten Realms, which then became a Ravenloft game) more or less petered out a few years back, and I missed gaming. Of course, I’d gotten into professional RPG and novel writing since then, so that helped. But I still missed the game, and being invested in Eberron made me want to do it all the more. Although it doesn’t look like I’ll be doing any novel-writing for Eberron anymore (though I suppose you never know), I do have a reason to stay invested in this setting: my DDI writing for Eberron.

But enough about that. Let’s talk about where things are at.

Kal is the only one left of the original group that started off down this Malov-based storyline. Since we started this game, we’ve had a lot of people drop off and it’s definitely taken a toll on my own enthusiasm. Paul Crilley (Cutter) couldn’t keep up with regular posting, then soon after both Ed Gentry (Oss) and Lara (Pel) followed suit. Joe (Streko) joined in and he’s been a pretty solid contributor to the game. Jeremy (Goran) left the game, though Mike (Torhak) joined in, but for reasons unknown couldn’t continue for too long.

Ken (Belarin) joined in and he’s going strong. A good fit! Marcy joined in but life circumstances interfered so she’s still up in the air for the time being. (Although her son is doing much better, and I couldn’t be happier about that. She’s also hard working on her second Eberron novel right now.) Brian (Condign) joined us and I know he’s enjoying the game and keeping good pace.

But the original plot is faltering. It’s become increasingly hard to write the disappearing characters out of the story. Not to mention Grafth was pretty central to the take-on-Malov story. Losing him makes this all the harder to keep that going. From your angle, maybe it’s not such a big deal for but for me it is difficult. The momentum has deflated the more we lose characters who were part of the original story.

As I see it, there’s three ways to go from here:

• A. Just Keep Swimming: Keep plodding along and try to make the present story work, despite the loss of Grafth. Much harder for me and not necessarily my preference, but this route also makes the most use of all the hard work that’s gone into the story so far.
  
• B. Start Fresh: Start a new Eberron campaign altogether. New characters (or perhaps altered version of your characters, if you don’t want to lose them) and totally new plotline. We could start right at the level we’re at (3rd level characters), so there’s no big adjustment there. If we go this route, we could do what I should have done in the first place: brainstorm with everyone and find out what sort of game you would all find more rewarding. Do you want to be a mercenary group going off on missions in different lands? Do you want to be archaeologist adventurers (Indiana Jones in Eberron) going off on expeditions? Do you want to be veterans of the Last War all from the same nation, perhaps comrades from the same military unit? Do you want to be spies in the espionage shadow war that’s taken place since the Last War ended? Do you want to be sea-fairing characters in the Lhazaar Principalities? And so on… The main benefit of this route is that puts all of you remaining players on equal footing. Brian and to some extent Ken often have to figure out what’s taken place before they joined the game to make sense of things. But with this route everyone’s starting fresh.
  
• C. Dark Echelon 2.0: Shoot forward through time. We could do a Lost-like flash forward, so you keep your same characters but we shoot into the future a few levels and say that all this current Malov stuff is now in the past and that you’re in a new place and a new situation, so once again everyone’s on a more equal footing as far as what they need to remember. But it would all still connect.

Let me know what you think, please. I’m torn on this, and it shouldn't be only my decision anyway. While I hate to see all the work so far go to waste, starting fresh with a clean or semi-clean slate (options B or C) might still be the most pragmatic way to go. If you want to continue on just as things are….well, I’ll need convincing. As I said, it’s a lot more work for me to make sense of the storyline when so much has been lost from it.

The other thing is, if any of you choose not to continue in any game, then now’s the time to say so. If this game ever becomes more chore than fun, quit. It should never be anything more than entertainment and creative interaction with cool people. Which all of you are, to me. Hence, it’s always been worth it for me. But only so long as everyone’s having fun.

Ken, at one point you told me you had a friend who might want to join. If that’s still so and if you really think he’d be a strong contributor to the game, I could entertain the idea. This might be a good time to talk about that.

[Darren]

Of those options, I would certainly choose C. I admit that lately I've been feeling like the game is losing a lot of steam, and the drifting story-line might be part of the reason. The other thing, too, (from my perspective, anyway) is that it's hard to keep interest in a story-line that's been going on for years. I mean, you give me a hard time about not going back through the archives and looking things up, but the truth is I don't really have the time or necessarily even the desire to do that. That makes it become like work. If I can't keep the story in my head, at least the major parts of the story, then it's probably either gone or too long or gotten too complicated for this style of play. Lately, the events I've enjoyed the most are the battles because I can check in, see what's going on, give my input, and then continue on.

So, yes, I would be okay with option C, and with adapting the style of play and the style of the game to more suit our desires as a group. The other option, conceivably, if you don't want to just flash-forward is that you could put Malov in the background as sort of an arch-nemesis whose storyline is going away for a bit. They do it all the time in comic books. Presumably Malov's plans are long-term, right? So we don't have to be pursuing him non-stop. There can be other adventures in the interim, right? He could even have some influence on those adventures without being the primary focus of them.

So, to sum up my thoughts....I think the game needs to, in general, move a bit faster. I think it needs to be kept a bit more simple to account for the play-by-post nature of things. And I would hate to lose Kal cause I've really grown attached to him over the last few years.

[Joe]

Complicated answer: I would prefer "A" as I am vested in Streko's personal storyline (for him, Malov is almost a secondary issue...Streko's is primarily to find his sister and reunite with her). However, I understand that this would create much more work for you, Jeff...and as you say, this should be a FUN game...NOT work...for any of us. So I will join Darren's call for "C." As you know, Streko has a great deal of meaning for me and I really kind of like the guy, so I would want to keep getting to know him a bit more, you know?

Easy answer: What Darren said.

[Ken]

My short answer: What Darren and Joe said. I can certainly see Darren's point that even a supremely clever, imaginative, epic-novel tale (which DE has been) can suffer from the limitations of Play by Post.

A few years back, I was in a long-running Realms PbP campaign. The DM encountered similar issues to this, so - at two points over the 5 years of the campaign (an eternity for PbP games) - he did "Option C": fast-forwarded our characters months or even years later. It recharged the plot and allowed new players/characters to replace those inevitably lost to attrition.

Another reason for Option C: As is apparent to everyone, I love writing Belarin! And I love the ever-increasing give & take with Kal and Streko and the opportunity for fun with Condign.

Thanks, Jeff. If it's OK with you, I can gently sound out my friend Dave (a superb roleplayer and Eberron fan) about his availability for daily or near-daily posting.

[Jeff]

First, thanks for the speedy replies. Nothing like a little controversy to bring people here in short order.

I can appreciate your leaning toward option C. It's probably the most refreshing way to handle things without losing everything we've built so far.

But I also don't feel that that alone would "solve" our, err, problems. I think we'd see some of the same issues rear their heads again, even with option C.

I think it needs to be kept a bit more simple to account for the play-by-post nature of things.

While I agree that a play-by-post style shouldn't be handled the same as tabletop, what you're suggesting, Darren, is that the problem still lies with me alone. If you hold to that, I guarantee no matter what option we choose, A, B, or C, we'll come back to the same problems again.

I am definitely a more meticulous DM than most. I can't change that. I can't offer you a "simpler" game. I can only offer you the type of game that it's ingrained in me to create. Now, if everyone votes for a game that involves no political intrigue, no diplomatic moments, and no complex NPC personalities....well then, I suppose we might see a faster game. We could just do a dungeoncrawl style game, but I'm not sure that would hold my attention for too long.

Now, there's a dominoe effect going on that I think's being missed here. Part of why you can't remember certain characters and past events is because they first took place a long time ago, because as you say, the game has been going on for a long time. But that slow pace is not my doing alone, and it kind of stinks to hear that suggested. We've had many, many, many occassions where some players don't post for days, sometimes just 2 or 3 days between posts and upwards of 2 weeks. That leads to a slower game for all, which leads to eroding memories of what takes place. I've seen it over and over again.

The other problem is that not all PC-to-PC interaction has been conducive to fluid gameplay. The story and real life pace has been snarled up many times because of inter-party arguments that often boiled into player-to-player conflicts. I know it rubbed Mike the wrong way a few times, and I certainly know it was a big factor for Josh.

The other option, conceivably, if you don't want to just flash-forward is that you could put Malov in the background as sort of an arch-nemesis whose storyline is going away for a bit. They do it all the time in comic books. Presumably Malov's plans are long-term, right?

No comment on that just yet.

But I hear you. Joe, if we go with option C, I will definitely address your concerns about Streko. I'm glad you want to keep him.

Ken, definitely, feel it out with your friend. And in the meantime, anything else you want to tell me about him is welcome. It's always weird for me to enter into a game with a stranger; I've always just gamed with friends, for the most part.

There may be limitations to play-by-post gaming, but there's also a ton of benefits. One of them is the information storing factor. This game is a living archive. I love that. I want us to utilize that. That's why I tried to initiate NPC lists and chapter summaries and such. It's a tool you don't really get with tabletop. And honestly, for a writer like me, play-by-post is good even for the narrative. I can't tell a story verbally a fraction as good as I can try to write it. So let's not knock play-by-post too much, eh?

Of course, I want to hear from Brian, too. He may be the newest addition to our motley crew, but this affects him just as much as the rest of us and I give equal weight to his opinions on the matter.

[Darren]

Jeff, I never meant to imply that it's all your fault. Please don't take it that way. The slow speed of the game I think is, in-part, because of the play-by-post, and while I do think that the level of intrigue that you've woven into the plot has created a slower, more deliberate game, I do agree that player interaction has not allowed the game to move at a pace that would be more agreeable.

I think you said early on that what we are doing here is collectively writing a novel, and I completely agree with that and it is one of the things I used to love about this game. But imagine reading one novel for three years and only reading a few pages at a time. You'd start to get tired of it, right? I think that's what's happening here. Again, this is not your fault. It's just the way the game has been going.

I think a lot of times the game slows down because we can't figure out a clear direction, and because you don't want to just step in and tell us what we're doing (which is appreciated). I know this is an old conversation that we've been over again and again, but it's never really been resolved and it's as true now as it was when we started the game. So, consider that, as well, I guess....

There are certainly times when this game has really WORKED. I mean, I've been so into it at times that I've been checking the game constantly on my phone because I couldn't wait for the next post. It has been good. It's just dragging right now, but I don't think that's impossible to fix. I think Option C might be good for that, just to inject some new life into the story.

Consider this section to be a bit of writer's block. I know that, honestly, I don't really know what the hell Kal is doing anymore. I'm not sure where the story is going or what we're supposed to be doing or why Kal would even still be sticking around. Again, none of this is accusation. It's merely observation and reflection.