4th Edition Rules - Dark Echelon

[Jeff]

Hey, All.

I'm getting us started with 4E today (you'll see that post later today). We'll take it slow and wherever confusion arises, I'll step in and make it work. We can use this thread for any questions around the 4E rules. Ken, I know you're probably pretty well up to speed on the new rules, moreso than me, so feel free to help out if someone has any questions. I'm sure I'll be probably making some "houserules" here and there (such as Torhak keeping his darkvision, damn it!), but I'll generally let you know when I do.

You'll all find some new links in the signature line of your posts: stats, powers, and the usual die roller stuff. I can't remember which of you are unable to get the dice roller to work. Can you remind me? For those of you can, for rolls you know are needed, I'd much prefer you roll your own; I think it's more fun that way. If you want, just post the d20 result and I'll handle the necessary modifiers.

You'll also find that my signature line has changed to reflect everyone's hit points after the 4E conversion. The little dot to the left of each name will tell you how many action points each person has available to spend. I'll talk about action points soon. There's also a link to Actions In Combat, a document I created that'll give you the basic actions you can do in combat and how it breaks down. These are just common examples, not a comprehensive list. When not in combat, there's no need to worry about what types of actions are what.

Although that Actions In Combat document might be helpful, when it comes to most fighting, you'll want to first look to your character's powers. In 4E, it's rare that you'd ever want to just do a "basic attack." Each character has a few things they can do "at-will" and those things are typically better than a basic attack. Still, it'll take time getting used to them. We'll work it out.

The posting rules aren't changing. Please just use regular white text for in-game text and pink for mechanics. Oftentimes I've noticed that some of you guys are using pink to describe what actions you're taking. No need, that can be in white. The pink text is for numbers, mechanics talk, or even mentioning specific powers and spells that have their own gamespeak terms.

That said, you can be extra helpful, in combat, by being a bit more descriptive. Heck, it's easier to do so in a play-by-post game like this. And if you want to be really nice to your DM, you can even clarify your actions in the pink text. Here's an example, using Grafth (shifters are fun to use as examples, maybe because they're kinda fuzzy, and because Josh is a good sport).

Grafth makes his way quickly across the lawn, almost loping as he runs. On the way, he crams the murder evidence in his pocket. Assuming he reaches the bugbear, he sweeps his handaxe in an upward arc, aiming to literally slash the stupid grin from the brute's face. "Your finished, fuzzball," he growls.

__________________________

Move action: move to stand adjacent to the bugbear
Minor action: stow an item (the evidence)
Standard action: attack the bugbear with handaxe (or better still, use power XYZ)
Free action: speak

See?

[Jeff]

I wanted to give you a quick rundown of skills in 4E. The mechanics don't change (it's still a d20 + relevant skill modifier vs. a Difficulty Class set by me), but the names and types of skills have. Here's the list of what each is.

I also listed who your party experts are in each skill; that is, who's "trained" in it and therefore better at it than anyone else. I thought you might find such information interesting to have.

Acrobatics (Dex) – Good for… Stunts, balancing, escaping things, not dying when you fall from a height.
Party experts: Syrdan.

Arcana (Int) – Good for…Identifying magic, magic-using monsters, and sometimes even detecting the presence of magic.
Party experts: Belarin, Kal, Streko.

Athletics (Str) – Good for…Jumping, climbing, swimming, escaping more things.
Party expert: Kal.

Bluff (Cha) – Good for…Lying, fooling enemies, feinting, creating diversions.
Party experts: Belarin.

Diplomacy (Cha) – Good for…Influencing others, being persuasive, negotiating, haggling.
Party experts: Condign, Kal, Streko.

Dungeoneering (Wis) – Navigating underground, identifying subterranean monsters, not getting lost.
Party expert: Syrdan.

Endurance (Con) – Good for…Getting by in extreme environments, pushing physical limitations.
Party expert: Adamant, Condign.

Heal (Wis) - Good for…Helping your friends not die, treating poison or disease.
Party experts: Streko, Syrdan.

History (Int) – Good for…Recalling important events, people, places, legends, traditions.
Party experts: Condign, Kal.

Insight (Wis) – Good for…Discerning the intensions of others, seeing through a lie, piercing illusions.
Party experts: Adamant, Kal, Streko.

Intimidate (Cha) – Good for…Threatening others into doing what you want.
Party experts: Adamant, Belarin, Condign.

Nature (Wis) – Good for…Surviving in the wild, foraging, hunting, identifying what’s natural and what isn’t.
Party experts: Syrdan.

Perception (Wis) – Good for…Noticing things, searching, hearing things, finding tracks.
Party experts: Syrdan, Streko.

Religion (Int) – Good for…Knowing stuff about gods, faiths, churches, immortals, and the undead.
Party expert: Adamant, Belarin, Streko, Syrdan.

Stealth (Dex) – Good for…Sneaking, hiding, making yourself less of a target.
Party experts: Belarin.

Streetwise (Cha) – Good for…Finding out what’s going on in a village, town, or city.
Party expert: Adamant, Kal.

Thievery (Dex) – Good for…Stealing things, picking pockets, opening locks, disabling traps, sleight of hand.
Party experts: Belarin.

[Ken]

This is excellent, Jeff. Thanks. Yeah, I'm becoming fairly well versed in the new rules, so I'll help answer any questions. One thing I want to add right now since it's being discussed in the main thread:

Aid Another / Cooperation:

You can use your action to aid another in combat or to perform a skill.

• For skills, make a skill check vs. a Difficulty Class of 10. If you're successful, you add +2 to an adjacent ally's use of that same skill.
• For combat, make a melee basic attack vs. Armor Class 10. Success means you do no damage, but an ally gains +2 to hit the same target on his/her next attack or +2 to their defenses against that target's next attack.
  

In general, a maximum of four people can cooperate to aid an ally perform a skill (for a potential boost of +8 to the skill check), but this is subject to conditions, the DM's judgment, and common sense. In today's example with the rune on the lock, there's only room for two people to do the delicate work of disabling the rune.

P.S. Belarin is no slouch at Bluff, either.

[Darren]

Do flanking rules still apply?

Also, Kal is now the party master of Streetwise. There was an error in the original tabulation. ;D

[Jeff]

Yes, there is still flanking.

[Ken]

Melee and ranged non-magical attacks are 90% the same, with bonuses for flanking, opportunity attacks, etc. The bigger difference entails some of the "powers" (spells, special abilities) that we all have. Instead of the 3E target making a save vs. an incoming spell or power, you the 4E attacker must hit the target's Fortitude, Will, or Reflex value. In other words, spells and special abilities now use the same game mechanics as weapon attacks, i.e., roll to hit, baby!

Saves still exist, as a way to shake off any ongoing, round-by-round nasty effects that many powers inflict.

[Marcy]

Jul 10, 2008 10:18:41 GMT -4 Jeff said:

And if you want to be really nice to your DM, you can even clarify your actions in the pink text.

Well, I'll try, but too much crunchy stuff makes my eyes glaze over, so no promises.

[Josh]

I'm definitely on your side of the spectrum, Marcy... but I try to do as much rolling as I can, and I think that Jeff would definitely prefer a good "in context" description over "just the pink facts" if he had to choose.

As long as he doesn't just get "Grafth attacks the first bugbear," he's usually pretty happy

[Darren]

Pfff....Grafth NEVER attacks the first bugbear. He's more of a second bugbear kind of guy.

[Jeff]

Next up....action points...

Action Points

Once per encounter (i.e. a fight, or any point in time between a 5 minute "rest"], you can spend an action point. When you spend an action point, it’s gone, but you can earn more.

EARNING ACTION POINTS
- You start with 1 action point. (Monsters usually have no action points.)
- You gain 1 action point when you reach a milestone (every two encounters).
- After you take an extended rest [6+ hours of rest], you lose any unspent action points, but you start fresh with 1 action point.
Most often, you spend an action point to take an extra action during your turn.

SPEND AN ACTION POINT: FREE ACTION
- During Your Turn: You can spend an action point only during your turn, but never during a surprise round.
- Gain an Extra Action: You gain an extra action this turn. You decide if the action is a standard action, a move action, or a minor action.
- Once per Encounter: After you spend an action point, you must take a short rest [5 minute break] before you can spend another. (Some monsters can spend more than 1 action point per encounter.)

....and healing surges!

Second Wind
You can dig into your resolve and endurance to find an extra burst of vitality. In game terms, you spend a healing surge to regain some of your lost hit points, and you focus on defending yourself. Unless otherwise noted in the statistics block of a monster or a nonplayer character, this action is available only to player characters.

SECOND WIND: STANDARD ACTION
- Spend a Healing Surge: Spend a healing surge to regain hit points.
- +2 Bonus to All Defenses: You gain a +2 bonus to all defenses until the start of your next turn.
- Once per Encounter: You can use your second wind once per encounter and can use it again after you take a short rest or an extended rest. Some powers (either yours or another character’s) allow you to spend healing surges without using your
second wind.

[Jeff]

Combat Advantage

One of the most common attack modifiers is combat advantage. Combat advantage represents a situation in which the defender can’t give full attention to defense. The defender is pressed by multiple enemies at the same time, stunned, distracted, or otherwise caught off guard. When you have combat advantage against a target, you gain a +2 bonus to your attack rolls against
that target.

Some powers require you to have combat advantage in order to use them against a target, and other powers have a better effect against a target you have combat advantage against. If a feat, power, or other ability grants you a benefit when you have combat advantage, that benefit applies only against a target you have combat advantage against.

COMBAT ADVANTAGE
• +2 Bonus to Attack Rolls: You gain a +2 bonus to your attack roll when you have combat advantage against the target of your attack.
• Able to See Target: You must be able to see a target to gain combat advantage against it.

The following situations give an attacker combat advantage against a defender.

When a defender is . . .

Balancing
Blinded
Climbing
Dazed
Flanked by the attacker
Helpless
Prone (melee attacks only)
Restrained
Running
Squeezing
Stunned
Surprised
Unable to see the attacker
Unaware of you
Unconscious

[Josh]

So... an action point would allow you to attack twice in one round? In direct succession, or would it happen at the end of the round?

[Jeff]

In any order you want. If you spend an action point, it happens anywhere in your sequence of standard, move, and minor actions.

[Jeff]

Since Belarin will be making extensive use of the Arcana skill (more than the rest of you, I'll bet), I wanted to lay out the rules (as taken from the PHB and modified for Eberron):


Arcana (Intelligence)
You have picked up knowledge about magic-related lore and magic effects. This knowledge extends to information about some of the planes of existence, including the creatures native to those planes, such as elementals and fey. If you have selected this skill as a trained skill, your knowledge represents academic study, either formalized or as a hobby. Also, those trained in the skill have a chance to know something about Xoriat, the plane of madness (but not about its denizens, which fall under Dungeoneering).

Arcana Knowledge
Make an Arcana check to recall a useful bit of magic-related knowledge or to recognize a magic-related clue. You must be trained in Arcana to remember information about Xoriat, which requires master knowledge (DC 25) at least.

Monster Knowledge
Elemental, Fey, and Shadow
Make an Arcana check to identify a creature that has the elemental, the fey, or the shadow origin, or is a construct.

Detect Magic (Trained Only)[/color]
Your knowledge of magic allows you to identify magical effects and sense the presence of magic.

Identify Conjuration or Zone: Minor action.
• DC: DC 15 + one-half the power’s level. You must be able to see the effect of the conjuration or zone.
• Success: You identify the power used to create the effect and its power source and keywords.
• Failure: You can’t try to identify the effect again during this encounter.

Identify Ritual: Standard action.
• DC: DC 20 + one-half the ritual’s level. You must be able to see or otherwise detect the ritual’s effects.
• Success: You identify the ritual and its category.
• Failure: You can’t try to identify the ritual again until after an extended rest.

Identify Magical Effect: Standard action.
• DC: DC 20 + one-half the effect’s level, if any. You must be able to see or otherwise detect the effect.
• Not a Power or a Ritual: The magical effect must be neither from a magic item nor the product of a power or a ritual.
• Success: You learn the effect’s name, power source, and keywords, if any of those apply.
• Failure: You can’t try to identify the effect again until after an extended rest.

Sense the Presence of Magic: 1 minute.
• DC: DC 20 + one-half the level of a magic item, power (conjuration or zone), ritual, or magical phenomenon within range.
• Area of Detection: You can detect magic within a number of squares equal to 5 + your level in every direction, and you can ignore any sources of magical energy you’re already aware of. Ignore all barriers; you can detect magic through walls, doors, and such.
• Success: You detect each source of magical energy whose DC you meet. You learn the magic’s power source, if any (arcane, divine, martial, primal, ki, elemental, psionic, shadow, etc.). If the source of magical energy is within line of sight, you pinpoint its location. If it's not within line of sight, you know the direction from which the magical energy emanates, but you don’t know the distance to it.
• Failure: Either you detected nothing or there was nothing in range to detect. You can’t try again in this area until after an extended rest.


For example, if Belarin wishes to sense the presence of magic, he spends 1 minute scrutinizing up to 7 squares in every direction. At the end of that time, I will make an Arcana check for him (a secret roll, so he cannot be sure of the reasons behind any "failure.") If successful, I'll impart to him whatever he learns; if it's a failure, he learns nothing. And that's that. He cannot assess the same squares again until he's rested for 6-8 hours. So...time it well.

Oh, and Ken: bear with me as I get used to power sources and key words.

[Darren]

But presumably someone else can try, right? Also, is this another instance where someone else can add their bonus? If Kal and Belarin both try to Detect Magic together, will Belarin get a bonus to his check? If he fails, can Kal then also make his own check?

[Jeff]

Yes, anyone can make an Arcana check. But not everyone can make an Arcana check to detect magic. You have to be trained to do so, which Kal is.

As for assisting...I'll take that one case by case. Sometimes that's no good. And sometimes you'll better your chances of success by having each person make their own check anyway.

[Jeff]

Ken,

Let me know if you think I'm interpreting this correctly. When Belarin first attempted to detect magic, the area affected would have been like this:

Any sources of magic that Belarin failed to discern would remain invisible to him at the next attempt, so if he walked around the corner and made another Arcana check, it would involve a smaller section of squares since all the previous squares would be ignored.

Right?

You know, I wouldn't consider the new detect magic rules to be too streamlined.

[Ken]

Ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification. (I'm still learning, too!)

[Ken]

Just FYI:
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/239647200

It's a ways off, but I'm looking forward to it. Two questions: a) Will there be an official 4E version of the xeph, and b) will it look anything like the one I just did?

[Jeff]

Ahh, those wacky xephs. I doubt they'll be mentioned in the first Eberron handbook for 4E. Even in 3.5, they only got a mention in Secrets of Sarlona, the book detailing the "psionic central" of Eberron, which is the continent where humans originated but have since largely left behind.

I did see your xeph, Ken. Very cool. And I only just then realized that xeph might indeed have been taken from zephyr.

[Darren]

Seriously? There are entire websites just devoted to Psylocke?

The world is a crazy place.....

[Ken]

Hey, let's dust off this thread for the latest official D&D errata/updates:

www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/updates

Several biggies to note:

• The cleric powers Bless and Shield of Faith now take a minor action, not a standard one. Awesome.
  
• The wizard's at-will Magic Missile no longer requires a to-hit roll. Blessed be! About damn time!
  
• They updated the monster tables for the DMG to reflect the changes in Monster Manual 3.
  
  

[Jeff]

A shame neither bless or magic-missile are applicable with any of you guys. Interesting with magic missile, though! Less damage but automatic hit, like in the old days. I really wonder how/why they make these changes so long after the 4E release. I can only imagine the folks who were plugging for a chance in, say, the way magic missile worked got laid off at WotC and the folks who like the old style stuck around.

They updated the monster tables for the DMG to reflect the changes in Monster Manual 3.

Can't tell you how confusing that makes it for people who try and design monster stats for DDI, too.