Chapter 16: Q&A / Discussion

[Brian]

Joe, I'm sorry, but we are all busy. I too leave for work at 7am and typically don't get back until after 5pm (that's with an eighty minute commute each way). I run a business with bills to pay, employees to pay, IRS filings to make twice a month, clients to meet, and I manage people life earnings, all the while trying to figure out how the president's rants are going to screw with my job on each day. I too have a family to care for, with two daughters in college and those associated expenses. I wake at 4am each morning to work on my StokerCon stuff and I'm up until late doing the same. And my writing? I'm working on a really, really, really good short story...when I can. About 100 words a week at this pace. So, yes. I am busy too. But I manage at least some time to post and come up with something to drive the story forward.

That said, I'm here to play D&D. I love the hell out of it. It's my release valve. Maybe this is part of my personality, but I want to interact, to make a difference. I don't want to have Mel stand around and wait for something to happen. I'm trying to engage others and push the story forward. If I think we're stalled, I'll have Mel do something outrageous--jump overboard comes to mind. I come here to make a difference, to help all of you have fun. I don't want to be a shadow in the game.

I'm not throwing shade on you, Joe. Or anyone else, for that matter. How you choose to play is up to you. But to get the most out of the game, I feel I need put the most I can into the game. Emotion. Passion. Humor. To be honest, I sometimes wish we all shared the same game ethic. It could be so epic.

And a final note: Jeff puts in more time and effort than any of us. That's his personal commitment. As his friend, and as someone who made a commitment to this game, I feel it is my duty to put in as much individual effort as he does. For me, it's showing respect to all that he does.

Just so you know, I value each of you as a friend, even if I haven't met most of you. You have been kind and supportive and down right funny. And for that, I thank you. I am truly blessed.

[Jeff]

Not snide. Just observing, Joe, since the posts above have also been about figuring out why things are stalling.

Listen. Even if Streko is just going to acquiesce to anyone else's opinion from here on out (which, by the way, is no fun from where I stand) and always ask others to make spell suggestions for him), instead of playing the powerful 10th-level cleric with 10th-level agency that I for one would love to see him be (character arc!)....then at least posting and giving the rest of us some kind of physical reaction to things going on around him helps paint the picture. Helps us all imagine any given scene. Helps us see what's going on and know he's at least there.

Joe, this is a game. A long-running one, as you well know, and it's here for fun. I really don't know where to begin with all of what you're saying here. It frankly sounds like you're not enjoying any of this anyway, wherein you're this bothered when it's pointed out that you haven't chimed in for anything (not even to give assent).

If you want to play a character who's a silent follower who makes no decisions and exercises so little volition...I guess that's your choice, but I certainly can't understand it. Going back a very long time, I've always asked for, at minimum, a once-a-day sort of participation in this game. And it is a game, a thing of recreation. Not a job, not a duty, not a chore. When I have days off, if I'm around, I check in here because this is fun for me—usually!—and just not because I feel I owe it to you guys. When did fun and escapism go away from DE? If it did, for any of you guys, I encourage you to seek it elsewhere. I really do, because I don't want to tie you down to something that's not fulfilling. No one should be here out of any sense of obligation or guilt, or...whatever. The things you're saying, Joe...these are things Mike Ferguson said for quite a while before finally understanding that he wasn't enjoying the game, and finally choosing to walking away. A hard uncomfortable decision, for sure, but a respectable one. The right one for him and for us. He'd grown bothered and resentful that he was expected to speak up from time to time, to exist in the story each day, to participate daily. I like Mike genuinely—and even worked with him a little bit—but I still agree that he made the best decision when he left.

I could say AGAIN that of course there are days we ALL have that are overwhelming and we can't make it here. Yes, real life trumps everything. I understand that. But if I have to explain this all over again—and I've done so over and over in the past, and I'm tired of that—then I know saying it again won't matter. It's a given that we all have days we can't be here, and usually we say so in the Schedules/Conflicts thread (like Darren did earlier today, and I appreciated that).

You can talk about being busy, with work and responsibilities, and having a family, but you're also thus implying that none of us are, or do. I know for a fact that several others here have some insane-in-the-brain crap to go through recently. As for me, yep, I'm busy and exhausted all the time. My 4-year-old has had the flu, consecutive different flus, back-to-back in the last three weeks, and has missed tons of school because of it. We've had our hands full indeed. But I still come here to be in this game the same way I catch a movie on Netflix sometimes, or download something to watch on my commute, or listen to a podcast.... Except I actually find roleplaying with you guys all to be more fun than any of those. If only it were more often, you know? Obviously a tabletop game with this group of guys would be amazing. But this is the best we can do.

If you've got no time for this game, I understand that. I'm not going to go on about this much more. I'd rather spend that energy in the actual game. Since that's what this is.

One of my ongoing everyday mental challenges is weighing the effort I put into DE against...well, maybe getting back to some of my own writing again. I want to, I intend to, but doing so at this phase of my life, as a parent to a little kid, hasn't been easy anyway. DE has been a bit easier than that, at least. So I keep putting that decision off. So obviously when things drag here in DE-land, I'm all the more discouraged, because I have to ask myself, what am I doing here?

[Elvis]

I agree with Joe on the point of posting for the sake of posting.

It's good to set the scene and fluff out the downtime, but consecutive posts of minutia are redundant.

Maybe we should have a canned-post that reflects the character is doing a standard set of actions as it pertains the current situation.

Thul patrols, does ship chores, inspects the ballista, naps, smokes his pipe.

Repeat as necessary until something changes.

Thoughts?

[Darren]

Feb 21, 2019 23:32:12 GMT -4 Elvis said:

I agree with Joe on the point of posting for the sake of posting.

It's good to set the scene and fluff out the downtime, but consecutive posts of minutia are redundant.

Maybe we should have a canned-post that reflects the character is doing a standard set of actions as it pertains the current situation.

Thul patrols, does ship chores, inspects the ballista, naps, smokes his pipe.

Repeat as necessary until something changes.

Thoughts?

On those occasions when I've really had nothing to contribute, I still try to post something just to let Jeff (and everyone else) know that I'm still here and reading. So even something as simple as, "Kal leans against the railing of the ship and feels the breeze rustle his hair, considering what their next move should be while listening to the idle chatter of his friends," lets Jeff know that I've read what's going on, but I don't have anything else to contribute right now. If I post nothing, he may wait around thinking that I'm not reading or that I have something to add but haven't gotten around to it, yet.

[Joe]

Feb 21, 2019 23:53:23 GMT -4 Darren said:

Feb 21, 2019 23:32:12 GMT -4 Elvis said:

I agree with Joe on the point of posting for the sake of posting.

It's good to set the scene and fluff out the downtime, but consecutive posts of minutia are redundant.

Maybe we should have a canned-post that reflects the character is doing a standard set of actions as it pertains the current situation.

Thul patrols, does ship chores, inspects the ballista, naps, smokes his pipe.

Repeat as necessary until something changes.

Thoughts?

On those occasions when I've really had nothing to contribute, I still try to post something just to let Jeff (and everyone else) know that I'm still here and reading. So even something as simple as, "Kal leans against the railing of the ship and feels the breeze rustle his hair, considering what their next move should be while listening to the idle chatter of his friends," lets Jeff know that I've read what's going on, but I don't have anything else to contribute right now. If I post nothing, he may wait around thinking that I'm not reading or that I have something to add but haven't gotten around to it, yet.

My point was to vent. There are days when Jeff says something and I take it with offense. Those are the days I know when something else is happening because I know Jeff well enough, I think, to say that he's not just a good DM, but a good human being. Of course everyone is busy, as if this comes as a shock. I love this game and enjoy playing it. I laugh, I struggle, I wax unpoetic. I've said it before and I will say it again, you all are a family to me and make my days a better place to inhabit. That being said, I like Darren's take on this and will follow up on them. I might not post EVERY day, but I will post and it will be, in some way, meaningful. As I've mentioned (I think i told you, Brian, when we met, but I can't recall for sure), I can get deeply into my head when I get stressed out. Sometimes, I withdraw, sometimes I take offense at innocent comments that are observations, not judgments, and sometimes I post wildly. A simple private post to see if things are okay would be preferable to a public post about someone not being seen for days. I mean, I've been here, but there has been nothing for Streko to say or do. We've been contemplating the landing party and the choices made were made by those whom everyone agreed were the ones to make those choices. I supposed I could make Streko bitter and resentful, but that hasn't been how I've played him for over five years, so why would I start now? I will keep what Darren said in mind, as it makes sense to me. I know all of you are busy and I can't thank Jeff enough for all the hard work he puts in, or Brian, or Dave or Ken or Dave or Darren or Elvis. Each of you are a gift and I thank you for your efforts. Never doubt how I feel about you or this game. When the time comes for me to leave it, Jeff (or Brian) will be the first to know. Jeff, for the record, despite all the things I have on my plate, what you do each and every day leaves me in awe. That you find the time for this along with your other obligations is inspiring. What I was talking about was in no way meant to disparage anyone here. I hope you know that.

[Jeff]

Your point was to vent? I'm not really sure what your real conclusion is here, Joe. That while I try to manage the participation of players on top of the rest of the game, you're just going to be moody sometimes and that’s that? Oh well? Can't say I find that very encouraging.

I don't need thanks for any of this, I really don't. Your thanks can just be engagement instead. Be part of a growing story by taking part in it and not just standing on the airport-style moving walkway beside that story. And part of that is also just knowing how your character mechanics work.

Feb 21, 2019 23:32:12 GMT -4 Elvis said:

I agree with Joe on the point of posting for the sake of posting.

It's good to set the scene and fluff out the downtime, but consecutive posts of minutia are redundant.

I don't agree, because that's precedent for some seriously ho-hum gaming. If this were a tabletop game and one player is silent for two hours out of a four-hour session, is that person even playing? To be metaphoric, this isn't a plane where I'm the pilot and you're all just passengers waiting to arrive. If anything, you're the crew and we're not even sure of the destination yet; that's all being discussed as it flies.

Feb 21, 2019 23:32:12 GMT -4 Elvis said:

Maybe we should have a canned-post that reflects the character is doing a standard set of actions as it pertains the current situation.

No, because that's just going through the motions. Again, this comes down to whether there is a desire to be a player in this game or not. I don't want it all to run like this:

1. I say some stuff.
2. Some of you react. Or not.
3. I continue saying some stuff.

Is that how you want this to go? I for one would rather it be like:

1. I say some stuff.
2. The characters, who are part of the chronology of the story, act and drive the story.
3. I alter the story accordingly and the world reacts to you.
4. We collectively tell this story.

Is that so crazy?

Feb 21, 2019 23:32:12 GMT -4 Elvis said:

Thul patrols, does ship chores, inspects the ballista, naps, smokes his pipe.

Repeat as necessary until something changes.

Ideally, the parts where that would apply are when I, too, go into auto-pilot. Basically when nothing is happening, I will jump forward in time, too. But when something's up, or things are going on where your decisions as PCs can change the course of where we end up next, then we're in that moment. Weigh in, influence things.

Feb 21, 2019 23:53:23 GMT -4 Darren said:

On those occasions when I've really had nothing to contribute, I still try to post something just to let Jeff (and everyone else) know that I'm still here and reading. So even something as simple as, "Kal leans against the railing of the ship and feels the breeze rustle his hair, considering what their next move should be while listening to the idle chatter of his friends," lets Jeff know that I've read what's going on, but I don't have anything else to contribute right now. If I post nothing, he may wait around thinking that I'm not reading or that I have something to add but haven't gotten around to it, yet.

Yes, that's on the right track.

[Ken]

I just read all of these posts, and my head is swimming.

Joe, when you talk about how busy you are - ostensibly as an excuse for not posting more often - and then, after getting called out on it, say you well know that of course everyone else is busy, too, I'm insulted. Not only because your original statement implied that the rest of us don't have a lot going on in our lives, but because you then shrugged it off after it was pointed out to you, as though I really didn't read what I just read.

If it seems that Melethos, Kal, and Belarin are the ones calling the shots in game, then it's likely because Brian, Darren, and I have historically been the most regular posters over the years, and because our characters initiate the most actions and trigger plot elements for Jeff to react to. Jeff's once-a-day posting request has existed for years. If you're concerned suddenly that Streko is being relegated to supporting status, I believe it's within you to do something about that. Personally, I would love to see Streko finally flex his divine muscles - both philosophically and spell-wise.

As Brian said, "I come here to make a difference, to help all of you have fun. I don't want to be a shadow in the game.... To get the most out of the game, I feel I need put the most I can into the game. Emotion. Passion. Humor. To be honest, I sometimes wish we all shared the same game ethic. It could be so epic."

Your comment made it sound as though the game has become a chore. That should not be the case.

[Elvis]

Don't get me wrong. The interaction is great. But when we post... then wait... then post again.. and its just the same general mundane actions, then it starts to drag.

I think we post because we are waiting for so long that it feels like we need to remind everyone we are still there and doing... stuff.

Shorak is in the nest with the spy glass. Thul is smoking his pipe and patrolling. Mel is flexing and doing sword kata. Stroke is fixing meals. Repeating posting these actions doesn't add anything beyond the initial post.

If the actions are new and generate something new and interesting that hasn't already been posted, then it's a no brainer- post it!

That's just my observation and my opinion.

[Jeff]

That pattern is usually the result of the one-at-a-time and often randomness of PC action-taking. For example, when all is quiet and settled enough, I move forward, jump through time to avoid any tedium; you've seen me ask many times if anyone has anything else they wish to do before I move on. But sometimes right before such a jump, one PC then walks up to another PC and asks a question. Which is fine, I like that, but if it's only those two people choosing to interact with other and each of those players only posts once per day, that's a week-long conversation and everyone else waits that entire time.

Unless they, too, choose to embrace the situation and roleplay. If I was a player (and I seldom am), I personally would take that opportunity to do something to enrich the characterization of my character and another's. Seeing another conversation going on, I'd try to initiate one of my own, so I don't just wait in silence. Maybe that's just me.

Now, if any player is just here for the battles, obviously this is the wrong game for that. But those will eventually come, too.

It's all about what your'e here for.

[Dave W.]

I know I've had my bad moments too wrt not posting, and I am sorry. I know this must be super-frustrating for Jeff, but I think we just need to periodically remind ourselves to do better.

I'm all for striking up a conversation when the A-Plot doesn't involve your PC. Just as an example (I'm not complaining, just an example) but Adamant has been standing in the middle of the Dragonfly holding a burning hammer like the Statue of Flaming Justice for pages now. If anyone needed someone to bounce a "whatcha doin?" off of, he was there. Jeff and I have been running a B-(or -C or -D) Plot alone for a while now.

Joe, if Streko is happy just following along that's a character choice. If he (or you for that matter) are not happy with it then interact. We have pretty directly picked leaders in the party. Adamant had all sort of interactions about it (sorry Elvis, you took the brunt of that) and will probably continue to.

Anyway, I don't have an issue waiting as something plays out that I'm not involved in. OTOH, one of the advantages of play-by-post over face2face is there isn't cross-talk. At least in my f2f group there is a tendency to have multiple conversation at the same time and I'm getting old, I can't pay attention to more than one at a time. In PbP, I can "hear" more than one going at a time.

Anyway, I guess there's really nothing you all haven't said before in this... I will try to remember to post more often and use action words...

[Brian]

I've been dying to have Mel ask Adamant about that hammer, but he was in the dinghy when Adamant has his little blurb about having a problem with Syndra. If no one asks him, you can count of Melethos to bring it up when he notices.

[Dave B.]

I feel I should chime in. I agree with most of what everyone is saying, but I have suffered from, what I can only assume is post-skimming, several times. A couple of times Shorak was drawn into a conversation, which he responded to and then that was it. No further interaction from the character that initiated the conversation. I find that frustrating. When Melethos was possessed and the ghost or spirit impaled him with his own sword, Shorak stayed by his side until he was fully restored. He even carefullly cleaned the braid that Melethos carries of Melethos' blood, but nobody seemed to notice or care to. Basically, we've all had times where we've dropped the ball when something interesting happens that could add spice to the more mundane periods. We all have lives, things are going to drag every once in a while. It happens. Just keep posting. Keep adding to the story as best you can. If your posts draw another character's attention, great. If not, oh well. That's my take, anyway.

[Elvis]

Sorry Jeff. I'll post soon.

Thul is going interact the hell out of those mephits.

[Dave W.]

sorry... work crashed my day. I'll try to post tonight but no promises...

[Jeff]

Feb 26, 2019 9:47:01 GMT -4 Darren said:

Jeff, I assume that once Shorak climbs those stairs, he won't be in sight of the Dragonfly anymore?

Correct. After that first bend, no more sight of the ship.

[Jeff]

Feb 28, 2019 11:14:27 GMT -4 Ken said:

Belarin moves up to Melethos' position and, as a bonus action, sends the dancing lights farther down the passage. There are four of them, about 20 feet apart, with the farthest one going 5 feet past Shorak's spot on the map.

FYI, in case it matters, the passage through the rock isn't a cave. It's open at the top, meaning the general light of the cavern reaches into it. It's dimmer in there, but not to the point of dim light, mechanically. But to someone without darkvision, Belarin's fey lights still make the way easier. So it's still appropriate. Just wanted to make sure you understood that it's not sealed in on all sides. Sort of like this, only even more exposed at the top.

[Dave W.]

That's a beautiful image Jeff...
I think Adamant still has his Delver's Light on, I don't think we turned it off did we?

[Ken]

Ahhhh, that's much clearer! Thanks, Jeff! I'll leave the dancing lights up for now.

[Brian]

I was going have Melethos wait for Shorak's response to Belarin's call out, but the Cogship changes the equation. I'm good with proceeding up to Shorak, Darren, if you give the order. Just let me know in a post and I'll lead the way up.

[Dave W.]

Syndra also sheds light btw...

[Darren]

Yeah, I really wanted to reunite the entire group at this point, but with the cogship there it doesn't really make sense for Kal to call Streko and Thul off the ship....

[Brian]

If you post in the main thread what you want done, I'll get the ball rolling.

[Ken]

Kalarian is flashing the dragonmark to the slaad. We are all doomed.

[Jeff]

Ken: I still also need not-just-surface thoughts. Deeper thoughts, insights, and stuff "that looms larger" stirred by those questions posed by the slaad. Again, much like the spell:

You initially learn the surface thoughts of the creature—what is most on its mind in that moment. As an action, you can either shift your attention to another creature’s thoughts or attempt to probe deeper into the same creature’s mind. If you probe deeper, the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. If it fails, you gain insight into its reasoning (if any), its emotional state, and something that looms large in its mind (such as something it worries over, loves, or hates). If it succeeds, the spell ends. Either way, the target knows that you are probing into its mind, and unless you shift your attention to another creature’s thoughts, the creature can use its action on its turn to make an Intelligence check contested by your Intelligence check; if it succeeds, the spell ends.

After that, if the slaad presses on mentally, then you'll get a saving throw again.

[Ken]

Understood. I'll revise in a moment.

[Brian]

Mar 4, 2019 12:36:55 GMT -4 Ken said:

Kalarian is flashing the dragonmark to the slaad. We are all doomed.

I thought the same thing.

[Dave W.]

Just to be clear...
We (Team Kal) all heard this:

Mar 4, 2019 16:24:19 GMT -4 Jeff said:

It intensifies and almost grows more solid. NO MORE QUESTIONS from the newcomers until I have all my answers it says more loudly, and all those looking at it can hear this. The slaad says something in its own language again, more loudly.

But did we all also hear this??

I, Gzaru, hold no gate. Yet will I point to the gate's keys...IF you are the one here to speak your message, the one I have waited years uncounted for. Years I have searched all pathways and bridges for. Speak no questions—not one!—or I must give consent. Gzaru pauses, then clarifies: A red associate must eat at least one of you.

[Jeff]

Yes to both.

[Brian]

Jeff, are there any blank pieces of paper in the corner, as well as something that could be used as a writing implement?

[Jeff]

He'd have to sort through them to find out; it's kind of a little mini-hoarder's pile of stuff.