Chapter 15: Q&A / Discussions

[Elvis]

May 30, 2018 12:33:22 GMT -4 Brian said:

No worries, Elvis. It takes time to get the right feel for a character. But I see Thul as an experienced fighter who might recognize that others can provide him with either assistance or information he might not have, or how to coordinate the strengths of each player to augment his abilities (and vice versa). We'll all get it worked out with time.

That is, if we live past this encounter.

He is an experienced fighter. There are different ways to see what he is doing. Sadly, I feel the decision has been made to view it as problematic or no contribution at all.

The implication is that I don't know how to play the character. Which is understandable, because it doesn't conform to the existing style of play already in place.

I'll be rethinking Thul and how he will contribute. There is a double standard, which is frustrating. So Thul will avoid further conflict unless directed.

Sorry guys,

[Brian]

Speaking for myself, I don't see Thul's contributions as nothing. Melethos will react as if he is agreeing with Thul on this encounter and will follow Thul's lead. But that may change depending on how Melethos is treated after the encounter.

Feel free to express any frustration you feel, Elvis. We are all here for fun, and frustration isn't fun. That goes for everyone, of course.

[Dave W.]

yeah what Brian said. If this is how you see Thul it can't be wrong. But Adamant may give him some grief about it.

Any frustration on my part is that Adamant is so slow. There's nothing incorrect about that, he's built as heavy infantry so he's covered in metal; he should be slow. But he's the slowest member of the party... I think he's even slower than Streko.

You've seen Adamant complain several times about being put in the back. It's not because rearguard is unimportant or less prestigious. It's that I spend the first round or two of every combat trying to move to the fight.

I love the idea of Thul holding the Oathbreaker and even admire the sacrifice of trying to cover up the innocent halfling so Addy can get in to attack. Its a great idea. But it's not going to work out; you're going to be swamped by ghouls before Addy gets to move.

It's fine, I have things I need to do on my turn.

[Brian]

Don't assume Addy is out of contention this round, Dave. A lot will depend on what Joe decides to do with Streko, and Melethos has a trick or two up his sleeve....

And about Adamant being rearguard: it never occurred to me that he needs at least a round to get into the battle. I will remember that fact going forward.

[Ken]

I agree with Brian. While there may be some questions about Thul's tactics and lack of manners, that doesn't (or at least shouldn't) necessarily translate into critiques of YOU, the player. For instance, Thul seems to be a hero in the cold loner type ("I'm Batman") with a penchant for impulsive behavior and a hardcore resistance to trust. So he grabs the vampire without much thought of how that might impact the rest of the group's tactics. That's a flaw in the character, not the player.

Belarin doesn't like Thul. But Belarin will reluctantly admit that it was Thul's persistence which gained vital information up in the clouds while the rest of the group retreated. Likewise, Thul apparently just walked right up to Lamara d'Medani, said "How YOU doin'?", and got more information from her. (Belarin doesn't know that part yet.)

There's nothing wrong with taking a different approach to play style. If it causes the rest of the characters (and players) to wonder whether their tried-and-true methods could do with some refinement, that's a good thing.

Like Brian said, feel free to vent. And if you're going to change the way you play Thul, I think we'd all prefer to see it done through gameplay ("Hmmm, these loner tactics aren't working against this foe. Maybe I should join the Justice League...") rather than because you feel you're being forced to.

[Jeff]

Personally, I would not want to see a straight-up personality shift in Thul. That would mess with continuity, too. I'd just ask all of you to reconsider all recent events, as many things as you can remember. The truth is that Thul won the information from the cloud giantess where the rest of you turned away. That 100% changed the course of which way the expedition was going to go. Interestingly: without that intel, you almost certainly would have had to come to Last Chance for different reasons: in hopes of finding rivals who have the info you need. What you did do was achieve the removal of the massive rainstorms for all of Stormreach. Ironically, Thul had scoffed at that task.

Point being, you're all accomplishing different stuff, oftentimes apart.

And on the clouds, Thul did save Melethos from a very nasty drop. I'm certainly the courtesy would be extended the other direction. Saving another person's life who's fighting on the same side as you is, I'd say, probably more than a courtesy. It's almost expected. You need the other guy to help keep you alive.

But the point is, when something about someone rankles you, push through and remember everything else about them.

Also, and I've said this a few times, remember that it's not like the rest of you have always got along.

But whatever the outcome of this fight, you absolutely should talk about it later, in character. Do a post-mortem. Which is more than just a good pun, considering the present company.

Thul is a good grappler/brawler; he's got a feat for it. Now grappling a vampire spawn is more reasonable than you think; a master vampire would be greater trouble. Thul probably would know better than to grapple an undead whose mere touch is harmful.

But you should also cut him some slack. Thul is a veteran set in his ways, yup. He's a cantankerous cranky old man informed by experienced and some mysterious life events. You don't know much about him. Wouldn't it be interesting to find out more? Maybe some old dogs can learn new tricks, though...

[Brian]

I too don't want to see Thul change more than evolve as he interacts with the others. A gradual understanding of the battle and interpersonal dynamics. Just taking him in a different direction seems wrong, to me.

[Elvis]

I know Thul looks impulsive. That, unfortunately, is Jeff's fault. (In a good way). By forcing us to play in character, it eliminates the traditional table talk to hash out strategy. I really like this element. Alot.

Thul's personality also doesn't allow for chit chat.

Without getting into a character dating profile here.... Thul is (as you should have already noted) brutally honest. He doesn't lie. In combat, blunt force trauma is king. That's not say it's the right call every time, but that's his flaw. Lack of fear. He can only cheat death so many times, and his time his coming. Thul will bleed out every last HP to achieve the objective (and he very nearly did in the cloud castle). 

Thul knows the Warforged will be morally obligated to protect the halflings... he's said so to his face.

Nothing in this post should be a revelation.

Anyway, one last thing it terms of frustration. If Thul dropped a darkness spell on one of you guys right now; it would be answered with violence. 

Thul was concerned that any possible mind control would turn him on the others. That is why he asked Melethos to carry his axe and that's why his gave his favorite knife to the woman...

That's it for me. Let's move on and kick some ass.

[Jeff]

May 30, 2018 14:40:38 GMT -4 Elvis said:

Thul was concerned that any possible mind control would turn him on the others. That is why he asked Melethos to carry his axe and that's why his gave his favorite knife to the woman...

Which is actually a good illustration of him having ideas but just not explaining himself.

It's worth remembering that anyone who is playing a character who is an actual war veteran—and really, the closest we have to that is Adamant (and maybe Kal a little bit, by house association)—is also going to be frustrated by this party's lack of leadership and consistent chain of command. It's kind of a hopeless thing, though; I don't think that will change.

[Darren]

I don't have too much to add to what's already been said. I agree that I actually like the way you are playing Thul. However, I think that with this and any other cooperative-based game, it's always important to allow everyone the opportunity to play the game and not feel as though their contributions don't count. I think we've all played those games where there is one person basically telling everyone else what to do, and I would say that in this game we have all gotten used to the idea of letting everyone else play out something that they've started, even if we don't necessarily agree, at least until it reaches a logical point of moving forward. (This does, unfortunately, lead to one of Jeff's frustrations of a seeming lack of leadership since no one really wants to just tell everyone else what to do. If we were sitting around a table, it would be a little easier because it's faster to quickly discuss and come to a consensus, but in a play-by-post game that sort of discussion is very time consuming (and often doesn't make sense in-character).) In the most recent example, several of us were attempting to negotiate or at least converse with the vampire. I get that Thul's instinct as a character is to just go in and attack, and I don't deny that that is how he should be played. BUT, as a player, I would ask that you at least allow that conversation to come near its conclusion before Thul says, "Fek it," and jumps into the fight. That allows everyone to play their character the way they want without anyone being cut off from their role in the group.

[Jeff]

May 31, 2018 9:46:28 GMT -4 Elvis said:

He hisses in pain as the claws part his flesh. The foul, burning toxin is all too familiar as it works to seize his muscles. Through sheer force of will power, he denies it purchase.

I'm going to guess that at least 33% of Thul's many scars come from ghouls from his long career.

[Elvis]

Butchering Emerald Claw factions for Karrnath does tend to put him in direct conflict with ghouls quite often. I think it's a reasonable assumption that most of his scars are undead related workplace injuries.

 

[Jeff]

Hahahah. "Workplace."

Yeah, and the Karrnath Army's workers comp is atrocious. Mainly because the Ministry of the Dead keep interfering.

[Elvis]

They have a 'walk it off' healthcare plan in place.

[Jeff]

May 31, 2018 18:03:19 GMT -4 Darren said:

Kal gasps when he hears Belarin's voice and nearly loses concentration on his spell, the wall of fire rippling briefly until he masters it again. DEAD??? he shouts within his mind. No. No, no, no, no, no. Kal shakes his head, not realizing that anyone around him cannot hear his silent conversation. He told me he was being chased by Demise. We were on our way to him. We've run into our own problem outside of the town. The oathbound. And a horde of ghasts and wights. We could use some help out here. Back towards the Dragonfly. Quickly....

Darren, whatever Belarin's reply will be, hold off communicating anything further back to Belarin until Kal's next turn comes up. I want to keep the two places generally synched in the timeline, and Kal shouldn't be able to go back and forth so quickly in a single turn of combat. Thanks!

[Darren]

May 31, 2018 18:55:23 GMT -4 Jeff said:

May 31, 2018 18:03:19 GMT -4 Darren said:

Kal gasps when he hears Belarin's voice and nearly loses concentration on his spell, the wall of fire rippling briefly until he masters it again. DEAD??? he shouts within his mind. No. No, no, no, no, no. Kal shakes his head, not realizing that anyone around him cannot hear his silent conversation. He told me he was being chased by Demise. We were on our way to him. We've run into our own problem outside of the town. The oathbound. And a horde of ghasts and wights. We could use some help out here. Back towards the Dragonfly. Quickly....

Darren, whatever Belarin's reply will be, hold off communicating anything further back to Belarin until Kal's next turn comes up. I want to keep the two places generally synched in the timeline, and Kal shouldn't be able to go back and forth so quickly in a single turn of combat. Thanks!

Yup, yup. I figured that thinking is faster than talking, so you would probably allow this quick bit of conversation, but yeah, I wasn't planning to say anything else until next round.

Also, I think Jeff will probably be okay with me saying this since the whole party is familiar with having seen Kal do it before....regarding Melethos' current situation, remember that Kal has Lightning Shift to get quickly around the battlefield without being hurt, Fly (if needed) to get down to Melethos (although Lightning Shift can get him down there, too, I think), and Dimension Door to get them both back up. So no one needs to try to get down to him to rescue him. We just need to get the ghouls off of him so that squishy Kal can rescue the big, strong Tiefling without getting eaten by the undead.

[Brian]

Don't worry too much about Big Red. He can move really fast when he needs to.

[Dave W.]

He made move more slowly if he gets paralyzed by a Ghast... I hate ghosts... lets kill them all...

[Jeff]

Jun 1, 2018 10:09:47 GMT -4 Darren said:

Kal will cast Storm Sphere. The edge will be right next to Streko and extend 4 squares west from there. That should catch all of the beetles and, I believe, #1.

FYI, in case it matters, Kal can see (especially now) that a non-undead and seemingly unsconscious and/or dead halfling is attached to ghast #1. It will be within the storm sphere, too, if #1 is. I say non-undead because the halflings attached to #1 and the vampire had no reaction to either Streko's or Adamant's turning attempts.

[Darren]

Jun 1, 2018 10:15:03 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Jun 1, 2018 10:09:47 GMT -4 Darren said:

Kal will cast Storm Sphere. The edge will be right next to Streko and extend 4 squares west from there. That should catch all of the beetles and, I believe, #1.

FYI, in case it matters, Kal can see (especially now) that a non-undead and seemingly unsconscious and/or dead halfling is attached to ghast #1. It will be within the storm sphere, too, if #1 is. I say non-undead because the halflings attached to #1 and the vampire had no reaction to either Streko's or Adamant's turning attempts.

Understood. Kal has, in the past, made decisions that were not what he would have chosen but what he knew were best overall. That's how he got his Rekkenmark longsword.

[Jeff]

Jun 1, 2018 10:32:47 GMT -4 Elvis said:

Thul casts Shatter on himself.

Likewise, I just want to make sure it's understood that Shatter's damage will also affect the bound-up halfling fully. She's in the area.

[Elvis]

Thul is aware.

[Jeff]

Okay, guys.

Darren, I think you mixed up radius and diameter again, though. It's 20 ft. radius, which is 40 ft. diameter. Rather than telling me which square one edge is at, can you direct me to the centerpoint? For size, reference the grid from this battle:



The centerpoint should be the point between 4 squares, so it's easy to measure 4 squares in all directions as the radius.

[Darren]

Yeah, I don't know why I have such a problem with that. I was never very good at geometry....

I think the center should go 4 squares east of Streko. That should still accomplish what I was trying to do.

[Jeff]

East? That would be like this:

[Darren]

Dammit, man! You know I always say east when I mean west!

[Ken]

Remind me never to go on a road trip with Darren.

[Darren]

Jun 1, 2018 11:41:56 GMT -4 Ken said:

Remind me never to go on a road trip with Darren.

You just go "that way" until you hit an ocean.

[Jeff]

Aww, it'd be fun.

[Jeff]

This?