Chapter 6: Q&A / Discussion

[Mike]

Apr 6, 2010 22:52:09 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Belarin, Kal, and Streko can attempt a Wisdom attack to destroy the scrying sensor, if they so choose. Everyone else cannot see or feel it at all.

Syrdan can't? Just checking, since he aced the Perception roll.

[Jeff]

D'oh! Yes, I meant to include him. I'll amend.

My brain isn't fully operational right now.

[Jeff]

You know, I'm starting to seriously wonder if the dice roller isn't broke.

Pretty sure it's fine.

Some test rolls for Condign:

Test roll (1d20=6)
Test roll (1d20=20)
Test roll (1d20=11)
Test roll (1d20=3)
Test roll (1d20=15)

We're all using the same account, so our respective computers shouldn't affect anything.

[Ken]

Apr 13, 2010 10:36:36 GMT -4 Jeff said:

Ken, there's really no taking 20 in 4E, so I'd like to avoid retrying skills over and over. But you probably mean to use Arcana not for magic detection, but for just thinking up arcane-related ways of figuring out the devices. So I'm letting Arcana take the place opf Thievery in this situation.

Yes, that's precisely how I intended to use Arcana in this situation. Sorry for not making it clearer that I wasn't attempting multiple retries for the same purpose, but you got my meaning anyway. Thanks.

[Darren]

Jeff, we've been throwing around a lot of skill checks lately, and it seems to be a running theme that people (or at least me) aren't really quite sure which ones to use. Is there a rundown somewhere of when you would use each kind of check?

[Jeff]

Fastest, easiest reference I put together long ago for just that question:

ashlock.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=101&page=1#5020

Dungeoneering isn't for all-purpose skills that take place in a dungeon. It's about knowing and remembering something about the environment of a dungeon...monsters that live underground, etc. As quoted in the PHB: "Examples of dungeoneering knowledge include determining cardinal directions while underground (common), recognizing a dangerous underground plant (expert), or spotting new construction or noticing a change in depth while exploring an area (expert)."

Perception is usually the default skill for observation and examination, and when you don't declare you're using it, it's a static number: 10 + your Perception skill modifier.

So Kal walks around with a Perception check of 14 active at all times. Enough to notice some basic things, or obvious traps. But he'd need to actively declare a check if he wants to try for higher than that.

PHB: "If you want to use the skill actively, you need to take a standard action or spend 1 minute listening or searching, depending on the task."

[Darren]

Thanks, Jeff. I forgot that you had posted that. Very helpful.

[Jeff]

Meanwhile, Belarin examines the doors. They are of thick, sturdy wood, iron-handled with no obvious locks—another push or pull affair.

"No handles," he says, his comments not directed at anyone in particular.

Heh. But it's all right, Adamant can still try to push. And if that doesn't work, pull.

[Ken]

Oops! Clearly, more caffeine was required that day.

[Mike]

Before we decide to smash the statues (I'd personally prefer trying to move or turn them first, rather than moving straight to HULK SMASH mode), I wanted to just make sure that we've confirmed they have no religious significance.

I think Dave and I both mentioned wanting to make Religion checks on the statues before; I don't remember seeing those checks confirmed. If I missed that, my apologies in advance.

[Ken]

Apr 20, 2010 20:21:39 GMT -4 Darren said:

Basic strategy time, guys. Obviously we have to be careful of the trap floor. Kal has a power that can push a target three squares. My goal is to shift around by the doors and try to get the statue to be opposite me so that I can use that power to push it into the trap floor. Anybody have any powers to help with that?

Yep, Belarin has curse of the dark dream, and Kal would certainly know that; Belarin used it effectively against that blood red ooze WAY back at Shadowcrest. (Our very first combat using 4E rules, if memory serves.)

Initiative is 24. Woo hoo! I'll post in the morning.

[Brian]

Joe:

Also, Condign gains combat advantage over the statue until the end of my next turn. Never let it be said I wasn't there for you, Brian.

I humbly bow before your greatness, Joe. You are the wind beneath Condign's. . .horns? Well, I guess that's better than his tail. The imagery there would be too odorous. ;D

Jeff, my understanding of combat advantage it that Condign has a +2 modifier to his attack on his target. However, since Streko's Initiative is higher than Condign's, doesn't that mean the +2 will be added to his whopping roll of a 1, rather than his next attack?

[Jeff]

Jeff, my understanding of combat advantage it that Condign has a +2 modifier to his attack on his target. However, since Streko's Initiative is higher than Condign's, doesn't that mean the +2 will be added to his whopping roll of a 1, rather than his next attack?

Right you are. Until the end of Streko's next turn, the ally he designates (Condign) gets combat advantage; which, incidentally, does give you that +2 on the attack roll to your whopping "1," but sometimes having combat advantage helps you out with some other power you've got. But I don't believe Condign does. Rogues, however, are practically designed to take advantage of combat advantage.

The only way to avoid giving Condign a +2 on his roll right now is for Streko to delay his attack until just after Condign attacks...in which case that +2 would apply on Condign's attack the following round.

[Darren]

Darren: FYI. Ranged attacks, like lightning orb, draw Opportunity attacks from enemies adjacent to you. If you shift one square to the west to attack the half-orc statue, you'll still be adjacent to the monk statue and will provoke an Opportunity attack with your ranged attack. And considering where Belarin is shifting the half-orc statue, you'd get whacked by both statues. On the flip side, ANY movement other than a shift or withdrawal can draw Opportunity attacks from adjacent foes. So Kal is likely going to provoke an Opportunity attack no matter what he does if he sticks with the ranged attack. The trapdoor definitely limits our movement. (That damn DM! )You may want to keep Kal where he is in that case.

Thanks, Ken. Fortunately, Kal has the Sorcerous Blade Channeling Feat which allows him to use ranged attacks as melee attacks provided he's using his dagger as an implement. Which I didn't think to do. But I've edited my post accordingly.

[Ken]

Wow, that's COOL. I need to read up more on sorcerers! Thanks for the info.

[Jeff]

If Ken has his way, he'd have access to you all your character sheets merely to statisfy his insidious game designer's curiosity.

[Ken]

ALL YOUR PC ARE BELONG TO US.

[Darren]

Hey, Jeff (or whoever has a good grasp of the rules)....is it possible, given where everyone is right now, for Kal and Condign to switch places? How would that work? Also, if Kal moves at this point, will he end up automatically getting an attack of opportunity from one of the two statues?

[Jeff]

If all Kal does with his move is go 1 square, that's called shifting, and he won't provoke an attack. So if Condign is willing, they can both shift 1 square...depends on how the initiative order allows for it, but if I know that's your intent we might be able to make it work.

If you move more than 1 square away from a statue, yes, you provoke an opportunity attack.

[Dave W.]

• Adamant (53) 38

I hate to quibble, but Righteous Smite gives Adamant the 9 temp hp too. Shouldn't he be at 47 hp? 

[Dave W.]

Since you asked, I like the new format. Of course I wasn't using the old format long. But I like the description-followed by game code thing. It makes sense to me.

[Darren]

But presumably only if Kal switches places with Condign. If he moves to any other square, he's going to move away from one or the other statue, and that would provoke an attack, right?

[Brian]

Darren, Condign is more than willing to shift with Kal if you want. His attack is still valid and Kal will still get two attacks on his turn if it is a hit. Just let me know and I'll modify my post.

[Dave W.]

Apr 21, 2010 19:10:05 GMT -4 Darren said:

But presumably only if Kal switches places with Condign. If he moves to any other square, he's going to move away from one or the other statue, and that would provoke an attack, right?

Not if he shifts (ie, moves only one space).

[Jeff]

I hate to quibble,

It's not quibbling. You're right; I recently read a power where the power-using didn't get the temp hit points, so it threw me off. Fixed it!

Regarding the format, here's a question. The way I used to do it (with all the numbers at the bottom), did you find you were just skipping/skimming that or were you reading through it? I just want to find the best way to place the numbers where you see where it's all coming from. I guess I started to think that some of you would find that part less interesting, or would only look at the numbers that affected you.

So it's good to know one way or the other.

[Darren]

So you can shift one space AWAY from an attacker in 4E and not provoke? That's the part that I guess I didn't get. How far can you move AROUND an attacker? Is that also only one square? i.e. if you wanted to move from a square directly east to a square directly north of an opponent, would that provoke?

Also, Jeff, regarding format, I was completely skimming the results before. I kinda like the new format because I'm picking up on things that other people are doing which will allow all of us to coordinate better.

[Dave W.]

Apr 21, 2010 20:11:06 GMT -4 Darren said:

So you can shift one space AWAY from an attacker in 4E and not provoke? That's the part that I guess I didn't get. How far can you move AROUND an attacker? Is that also only one square? i.e. if you wanted to move from a square directly east to a square directly north of an opponent, would that provoke?

a shift is a 1 square move, it doesn't matter if you move away, towards or around the opponent. You can dance all around the opponent given enough move actions.

[Joe]

I agree with the above. Like the new format as it gives more of an idea of what everyone else is doing. Stick with it!! :-)

[Dave W.]

Apr 21, 2010 20:08:27 GMT -4 Jeff said:

You're right; I recently read a power where the power-using didn't get the temp hit points, so it threw me off. Fixed it!

Thanks! Must have been a warlord power... I used to play a warlord; their powers almost never help the warlord himself.

Regarding the format, I actually did read both descriptions and the numbers before. I'd read through the text part and then when I read the numbers I would sort of cross reference back to the text. The new format will save me a step. The link between numbers and text is obvious.

[Ken]

At first glance, I was iffy about the new format. But I like it. Like Darren, I may have been skimming through the results before. This way, we get a good look at the game mechanics and it's done a way that doesn't disrupt your excellent prose, Jeff.